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Are we losing expertise and institutional knowledge?

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LOST MYSELF

Plastic
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
What knowledge, specifically?


Lack of manufacturing infrastructure is a problem. Lack of passed-down knowledge is not. Don't understimate how quickly we can figure things out when our backs are up against a wall.


I totally agree that we should be making solar panels here in the states, but this isn't an offshoring problem. The panels were never made in the states to begin with. Current solar panel tech wasn't developed here and offshored. It was developed in China, by people from all countries. That's a problem. It's actually worse than offshoring.
but the sales market in USA
the clever USA engineer spend some time will develop the next generation
the question is than the cost will be higher made in USA than China
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
Off the topic, I know but:

"When institutional investment firms represent the majority shareholders; they force corporations to be more concerned about diversity, equity & inclusion and Environmental Social Governance "

Oooh. Boo hoo hoo. It's woke. It's climate. It's diversity. All the trigger words for the snowflakes. Golden Rule: those guys with the gold, rule. If the investors want XYZ, give them XYZ.

Basic knowledge is vital. Most times this comes via education and belive it or not schooling is a good way to achive this on a broad scope. There are schools that teach old-school stuff like blacksmithing and machine rebuilding. Hollow state electronics, and the newer kind as well. I'm going out on a limb and suggesting that right now is probably the *best* time ever to learn how to:

Fix cars
Grow crops
Repair household items
Build machines from scratch
Build radios from scratch
Build houses.
Study history.

Each of us has the world at the keyboard. Yeah the internet might go away. If it does, your gonna need more than a box of silver coins to survive.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
Why would anyone in that world need to know how to hammer forge anchor chain?
All Anchor chain is forged. Not “hammer” forged though. Its bent, hot. My friend who is doing small runs of stuff uses benders, both hand and hydraulic, just like it’s always been done. Its not like anybody machines it from billet. I have actually made bits and pieces of chain, over the last 40 years- and no it aint rocket science, but the physical process has not been changed by AI- you get it hot, you bend it. No hammers.
 
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DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
Ah... would that be the obsolete English Imperial gallons, or the even obsoleter English wine gallons I've been told they still use in the United States? :D

George
No, it would be the simple fact that the OP of that thread got cheated.
40 years ago it would have been obvious.
Now, with the internet, it's "Decide by committee", to forever be held up in
grey area's, never will a proper answer be given.
 

garyhlucas

Stainless
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Location
New Jersey
I was hired at my current job primarily as a mentor to the entire company of people under 40, I'll be 70 in July. My skills though are very much current. I use SW2022, AutoCad, PLC programming, CNC programming, can operate virtuall all machine tools, I weld with Mig, Tig, or Stick, I draw electrical schematics and design control panels, and wire the panels. I do mechanical design of automatic machininery too. At this job I've taught one young lady PLC programming, and panel wiring, to her and 3 others. I teach mechanical and electrical assembly, startup, and installation. I am teaching 1 hour learning sessions on various topics related to buildiing automation once a month that are being videoed. I am actually asked NOT to do things, but instead mentor others to do it. That can be somewhat frustrating. Three people without the necessary skills can not do the work of one that does! we did an installation the other day and the young lady commented how comfortable I appear to be on a ladder. Yes I've spent years working on ladders.

My boss said to me the other day "Damn, I wish I knew you 20 years ago!" I'd say he is pretty smart.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"That can be somewhat frustrating. Three people without the necessary skills can not do the work of one that does..."

Ha! This is the seldom appreciated (by managers) impedment to mentoring, training, skill transfer, or whatever you want to call 'teaching new guys to do what you do at work.' To wit: it takes three times longer to do any given task when you're teaching it. 4 - 5 times if you're teaching more than one.

Sometimes you train folks because the job's growing and it just needs more folks skilled at particular tasks. Other times somebody with broad skillsets is going away for some reason, like retirement or transfer. At my workplace the quickest way to become appreciated as a top performer who's indispensible, is by achieving a transfer to a better job. From a zero to a hero overnight. So common in fact that there's an institurional work-around: new job in new group comes with a promotion. Old manager can *not* hold up the transfer then.
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
All Anchor chain is forged. Not “hammer” forged though. Its bent, hot.

Almost but not quite. The bent links stuff is cool, I should scrounge up a couple videos. But there is also cast chain and forged chain. Both of those generally have the cross-bar on the links to prevent squshing. Big chain tho, like for ships. And the cast and forged chains are both pretty rare now that welding is reliable. Maybe someone knows how they can cast interlocking links, that'd be interesting.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
"That can be somewhat frustrating. Three people without the necessary skills can not do the work of one that does..."

Ha! This is the seldom appreciated (by managers) impedment to mentoring, training, skill transfer, or whatever you want to call 'teaching new guys to do what you do at work.' To wit: it takes three times longer to do any given task when you're teaching it. 4 - 5 times if you're teaching more than one.

Sometimes you train folks because the job's growing and it just needs more folks skilled at particular tasks. Other times somebody with broad skillsets is going away for some reason, like retirement or transfer. At my workplace the quickest way to become appreciated as a top performer who's indispensible, is by achieving a transfer to a better job. From a zero to a hero overnight. So common in fact that there's an institurional work-around: new job in new group comes with a promotion. Old manager can *not* hold up the transfer then.
"broad skillsets is going away for some reason, like retirement or transfer"....some jobs go away due to technological change and simply do not exist anymore which pretty much eliminates the "old manager" and changes the "transfer" to "permanent layoff".
Mentoring, training, skill transfer, teaching will be accomplished on some level by AI. At least that is what the major tech companies are planning.
"From a zero to a hero overnight." in this day and age is more likely something celebrated in the finance/investment/banking industry.
 

cnctoolcat

Diamond
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Abingdon, VA
Do older people always not have faith or trust in younger people? Will this always be there? I think so.
"The world is going to hell in a handbasket, kids now do not understand real work or want to lean"... That from Grandpa 50+ years back.

I get what you're saying Bob, but I do think it's different today though.

Why? Well, as humans one of our weaknesses is a general tendency to have attention deficit disorder, especially when we're young.

This ADD and it's associated youthful energy can be put to productive use, of course.
But it can also lead to young people's lives kind of being wasted---not learning a trade, getting a good education, building a viable career path, or even creating their own value in life. All because we got bored too easy and couldn't pay attention, couldn't focus long enough, and assumed the grass was always greener on the other side.

And this was before the invention of the internet and smart phone. The younger generation is way more distracted than we ever were back in the day (I'm 56 this year).

The instant gratification we get from social media and the web is addictive, especially to the younger generation. It is changing the fabric of society and family structures as we know it. The baby population of the world's industrialized countries is beginning a downward trend---people aren't getting married and they're not having as many babies.

And the younger generation today benefits from mommy and daddy's (and/or the grandparents and government) generosity well into adulthood, decades ago we didn't get shit once we got out of school. "Get your ass to college or get your ass to work, because you're now paying rent son."

The younger generation today also benefits from a wildly popular and money-making service sector---restaurants, bars, breweries and such let these young folks make good money, much of it cash. But for how long?

Back in the 80's when I was a teenager/young adult you couldn't buy a service job at McDonald's or anywhere it seemed...
 
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Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
Cast chain does exist. Its pretty rare though. Small stuff is cold bent and welded, big stuff like my friends do (2" and up) is almost always bent hot, which to use the technical term, is "forging". Read this, how since the Charleston forged chain plant was shut in 74, the US Navy recycles old Charleston forged chain for the 4 3/4" stuff.
 
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SD&M

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Location
CA
This ADD and it's associated youthful energy can be put to productive use, of course.
But it can also lead to young people's lives kind of being wasted---not learning a trade, getting a good education, building a viable career path, or even creating their own value in life. All because we got bored too easy and couldn't pay attention, couldn't focus long enough, and assumed the grass was always greener on the other side.

And this was before the invention of the internet and smart phone. The younger generation is way more distracted than we ever were back in the day (I'm 56 this year).

Wow, I think you really nailed it here! I've often wondered what it would be like to grow up in today's world, with so many more distractions than we had back then....I was *super* curious as a kid, and loved to read (encyclopedias, Time-Life books, manuals, etc), but I wonder if I could have handled all of the extra stimulation that you get (whether you like it or not!) on the web! Yeah, it can be an amazing tool (if used skillfully!), but for so many of us it looks like WWW is really just an acronym for "world-wide waste of time."

And don't get me going about what the "news" media have become-that's a whole 'nother discussion...yikes.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"...some jobs go away due to technological change and simply do not exist anymore ..."

In general true - in my niche, not so much so. The jobs are pretty much being created by the technological changes. My guess is it won't last forever but for the forseeable future the pace is going to increase I think. It has been exponential growth from the beginning about 15 years ago. I've been doing my best to teach others the skills I use - one problem is the needed skills keep increasing over time. Moving target if you will.

AI is a whole 'nother thing. Can AI change a vacuum pump or install microwave wiring? Can AI be an effective people manager? You can get chat gpt to explain red is green, up is down, black is white. You can have it explain why the germans won ww2. Some assembly for AI may be required - don't hold your breath.
 
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RC Mech

Stainless
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Location
Ontario, Canada
Can AI be an effective people manager? You can get chat gpt to explain red is green, up is down, black is white.

Based on the managers I’ve worked with and those examples, I’d say ChatGPT is a shoe in.

I read that the first industries for AI to disrupt are Finance and Human Resources. I’m giddy at the prospect of the day those types find their “skills” are not transferrable.
 

Pattnmaker

Stainless
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Location
Hamilton, Ontario
Cast chain does exist. Its pretty rare though. Small stuff is cold bent and welded, big stuff like my friends do (2" and up) is almost always bent hot, which to use the technical term, is "forging". Read this, how since the Charleston forged chain plant was shut in 74, the US Navy recycles old Charleston forged chain for the 4 3/4" stuff.
I have made patterns for cast steel chain. The links have a center post, half of the links are cast solid half have weld Vs cast almost all the way through. One each side of the center post and one in the center post. The Repair links (half of the links) get cut through at the v and then get welded together once assembled. These links were 3.5 or 4" wide section and were not round. They were for big draglines for the oil sands or coal mining. The same company makes bucket teeth that are a few feet wide and long.
 

cnctoolcat

Diamond
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Abingdon, VA
The entire Democrat initiative, everything they do, everything they vote for, everything they allow, is all for one purpose. And that's not to better America, but to gain more votes in the future, and thus ensure their eternal power.

Are people really so naïve to believe the Democrats want open borders because they are "compassionate"?

They want open borders because all those immigrants are future votes.

If the Dems can eternally lock-down Texas, Florida and Pennsylvania, like they have California, Illinois, New York and a few others, we will never see another Republican President in the White House.

As good as it feels to "win", do we really think this is best for the future of America, one party rule??
 
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Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
The entire Democrat initiative, everything they do, everything they vote for, everything they allow, is all for one purpose. And that's not to better America, but to gain more votes in the future, and thus ensure their eternal power.

Are people really so naïve to believe the Democrats want open borders because they are "compassionate"?

They want open borders because all those immigrants are future votes.

If the Dems can eternally lock-down Texas, Florida and Pennsylvania, like they have California, Illinois, New York and a few others, we will never see another Republican President in the White House.

As good as it feels to "win", do we really think this is best for the future of America, one party rule??


You doo realize that the debt climbed at the same pace under Trump as it did Obama and Biden?
Obama was trying to not bankrupt the whole nation (world?) after an almost '29 type deppression.
Biden was paying everyone to stay home and trust the science.

No clue what Trump did that required that much printing?


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
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