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Are we losing expertise and institutional knowledge?

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standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
You doo realize that the debt climbed at the same pace under Trump as it did Obama and Biden?
Obama was trying to not bankrupt the whole nation (world?) after an almost '29 type deppression.
Biden was paying everyone to stay home and trust the science.

No clue what Trump did that required that much printing?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Seems at this point those in Washington could give a ratz-ass about how anything they do benefits(?) working class Americans. It's all about what benefits those who legally can sign off on whatever they want that is of the greatest benefit to those who pay to get them into office.

It's all a bunch of words, numbers, promises that no one will ever be held accountable for.
Everything is subject to revision as needed where fact and truth is very elusive---no matter who kinda-sorta-seems to be running things.

One thing is a given...the number of gov't employees and national debt never decreases.
 

Freedommachine

Stainless
Joined
May 13, 2020
You doo realize that the debt climbed at the same pace under Trump as it did Obama and Biden?
Obama was trying to not bankrupt the whole nation (world?) after an almost '29 type deppression.
Biden was paying everyone to stay home and trust the science.

No clue what Trump did that required that much printing?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ox,

Congress has the power of the purse, not the president. Also, it would be prudent to consider the level of cooperation and respect that presidents have historically been given compared to that particular administration.

Trump received 4 years of Russiagate, rogue staffers, feet dragging department heads and a government apparatus that knew "he's not one of us". He was a threat to their democracy as they love to say.

Like the guy or lothe him, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am merely pointing out the obvious finger on the scale of government as it were.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
I am pretty sure neither Trump nor Biden has passed along any expertise or institutional knowledge to anybody, especially when it comes to metalworking.
I am more interested in actual example of metalworkers who train others, than imaginary R vs D online gaming.
Fer instance- I would like to celebrate Kevin Potter, who posts regularly here.
He is currently doing more to preserve knowledge than pretty much anyone else I have ever met.
His collection of antique ornamental dies is now well over 1 MILLION, all of which he buys outright with his own money, to keep them from being scrapped.
Then, he is buying machines, ranging from presses to engravers to rolls and specialty machine tools, again, machines which were headed for scrap if he doesnt buy em.
On top of all that, he is actually reviving the trade of making the master dies, making working dies from them, stamping dies he sells to jewelers, and producing ornamental and jewelry parts using the machinery, also to supply jewelers globally.
NOBODY is doing anything like this in any other metalworking field that I am aware of- singlehandedly keeping alive the bones of an entire industry that has been declared "obsolete" by the 3D printing crowd.
He shares information freely, encourages others to buy old machines, and makes videos he posts showing him using all these machines.
Most of the surviving old timers who know about this stuff dont even know how to use a cell phone, much less post vids about it for anybody to learn from.

His company, Potter USA, started out making another category of obsolete tools- forming stakes and tooling for making jewelry. At one point, he was selling to Chinese metalworking schools..
He has pretty much stopped doing that, although he makes nifty tabletop hydraulic presses for jewelers still.
If you havent visited his website, or seen his videos, you should.
Its exactly the subject of this thread, being done against all the "conventional wisdom", and boy, am I glad his wife puts up with him. He is a national treasure.
this tour of his shop is mindboggling- the floors are swept, the tools are on shelves, the machines run! (not like my shop). https://www.youtube.com/live/5K5aKNujJKk?feature=share
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
Another guy I really respected, who had a huge influence on an entire manufacturing sector, was Blacksmith Russell Jacqua.
Russell had always admired the form and beauty of european anvils, and in 1993, began producing an entirely american made anvil, the Nimba.
Most of the major US anvil manufacturers had fizzeled out after WW2, and it the 80s, the only real US production was small farriers anvils, usually right around 100lbs. Great for horseshoeing, but for serious work, you had to buy either antiques, or imported european anvils.
Russell designed, and then had patterns made, and then had cast, in 8640, a nickel chrome steel, 3 sizes of Nimbas. I have owned one for 20 years, and its a pleasure to use every time.
This was a labor of love- he spent a lot of time finishing, and then selling and shipping these anvils, and at the time, there was a lot of price resistance to a new high quality tool, as opposed to buying 100 year old anvils from barns.
Unfortunately, Russell died of ALS in 2006, but the anvils are still made by his (and my) friend Jim Garrett, in Port Townsend Wa, with US castings.
Since 93, there have sprung up a host of other US anvil makers- some cast in the US, some using Chinese or imported castings which they finish here. I am aware of at least 5 brands, scattered across the USA.
This market would not exist if Russell had not proved that it could be done, that people would pay for quality and US origin.
Russell was also a helluva blacksmith, and taught a lot of people large hammer work, on his 750lb Chambersburg, and his smaller Nazel 3b. Industrial forging techniques, adapted for ornamental work.
While Russell was not alone in keeping this scale of open hammer forging alive, for 30 years he was one of the acknowledged US masters, and his work was shown widely around the US and even abroad.
Here's a video of a group of his friends helping him make a massive forged sculpture, right before he died. Make it big, get it hot, hit it hard. If you think "art" blacksmithing is making a little leaf for a keychain, watch this video. That hammer shakes the ground for about a city block around.

Nimba Anvils http://www.nimbaanvils.com/index.php
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I can say one thing for sure after watching Kevin's shop tour- You would never, ever buy a Haas lathe after watching (hearing) that video.

Great shop though.
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
The entire Democrat initiative, everything they do, everything they vote for, everything they allow, is all for one purpose. And that's not to better America, but to gain more votes in the future, and thus ensure their eternal power.
If you think Republican politicians are any different in that regard, I've got a bridge to sell you.
 

FJsapper

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Sterling Heights, MI
Given the state of education today- too expensive and too constipated by conflicting liberal and conservative views, I wonder if we really could figure things out if our backs were to the wall. By "we" I don't mean us old farts, but the youth of today.
Sir, you are mistaken to think that patriotism died in the 20th century. My generation signed up promptly after 9/11 and served with honor for 20+ years of war. The only thing that stifled our zeal for service was growing up enough to see the craven nature of the politicians that squandered our lives in service of personal gains. Given a true threat, we will be there at the line again in a heartbeat. This same sentiment would be manifested for production in the face of another major war.
 
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FJsapper

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Sterling Heights, MI
Given the state of education today- too expensive and too constipated by conflicting liberal and conservative views, I wonder if we really could figure things out if our backs were to the wall. By "we" I don't mean us old farts, but the youth of today.
I’m not trying to beat you up, just sharing my personal experience:

Since COVID, I bought my first lathe, resurrected it, learned how to run it. Made some money. Then bought a mill, did the same. Started an LLC, two turret lathes and a bigger engine lathe, made money. Now getting into casting so I can improve profit margins and supply chain, all vertically integrated. I figured all this out via this website, old books, and YouTube. I’ve only had one personal relationship with anyone that had the knowledge (or proximity) to mentor me (a board member who was actually younger then me).

As long as we have the freedom to leverage our personal ambitions to improve the status of our families there will be advancement.

The value of leadership cannot be understated. Some of you gentlemen on this board know more than I ever will about making metal. If the call comes, I know you would step up in a heartbeat to make sure we were equipped with what we needed to fight.
 
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EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
If the call comes, I know you would step up in a heartbeat to make sure we were equipped with what we needed to fight.

That'll be real useful if Germany decides to invade France again. However, in today's world, that seems unlikely.

I don't think Conrad was talking about the "willingness to fight", but more about how to cope with situations such as, well, like a virus epidemic. Or deciding to go big on manufacturing again. Or making the middle class what it used to be. "Backs against the wall" doesn't have to mean machine gun nests, it can be something as mundane as figuring out how to get health care to most people without bankrupting them.
 

FJsapper

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Sterling Heights, MI
That'll be real useful if Germany decides to invade France again. However, in today's world, that seems unlikely.

I don't think Conrad was talking about the "willingness to fight", but more about how to cope with situations such as, well, like a virus epidemic. Or deciding to go big on manufacturing again. Or making the middle class what it used to be. "Backs against the wall" doesn't have to mean machine gun nests, it can be something as mundane as figuring out how to get health care to most people without bankrupting them.
Conrad is great, just friendly conversation. My point was that there is still a spirit of American ingenuity out there, although not quite as commonplace as it used to be. I suppose that is the consequence of peace.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"Trump received 4 years of Russiagate, rogue staffers, feet dragging department heads and a government apparatus that knew "he's not one of us". He was a threat to their democracy as they love to say."

Well now that you brought this up, and 'everyone's entitled to their opinion' I would say my opinion is he was a criminal who was impeached twice, loved putin's russia, hated america, and is paying $5M for grabbing some lady 'by the pussy' and then lying about it. But that's just my opinion.
 

jccaclimber

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Location
San Francisco
Conrad is great, just friendly conversation. My point was that there is still a spirit of American ingenuity out there, although not quite as commonplace as it used to be. I suppose that is the consequence of peace.
I’d say manufacturing ingenuity suffers a bit with peace. On the other hand, there are plenty of ways that American ingenuity is still going, and ways that it is still suffering. It follows the money. In times of war that money gets hurled at making weapons and the infrastructure to use them. In times of peace it gets hurled elsewhere. Aging population that isn’t paying as many wages out to the younger crowd so there’s good money in medical. Plenty of money getting hurled at software and similar development, which in turn pulls money into the country. Pity so much of it goes to Ireland as a tax haven.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
"Trump received 4 years of Russiagate, rogue staffers, feet dragging department heads and a government apparatus that knew "he's not one of us". He was a threat to their democracy as they love to say."

Well now that you brought this up, and 'everyone's entitled to their opinion' I would say my opinion is he was a criminal who was impeached twice, loved putin's russia, hated america, and is paying $5M for grabbing some lady 'by the pussy' and then lying about it. But that's just my opinion.
Oh wow....Poor Jim.


Happy Friday!
 
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Speedie

Stainless
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Location
Midwestern MN/Wi USA
Thank goodness there is a knowledge repository called the internet. The generations will have to rediscover as needed. I wont be there but my words will. Good luck kids and dont take the blue or red pill
 

Speedie

Stainless
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Location
Midwestern MN/Wi USA
I always thought it was interesting the government let so many huge business assets go overseas from auctions. So many big shops have been liquidated since 2006
 

cnctoolcat

Diamond
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Abingdon, VA
If you think Republican politicians are any different in that regard, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Please explain, in simple terms, how any Republican over the last 15 years has stood for having wide-open borders for our country?

They haven't, this is a Democrat thing...a "woke" thing.

All the Trump haters need to mature a bit. It's OK to hate someone that you've never met (although a bit childish, eh?), but flushing our country as we know it down the toilet for spite is just ridiculous.

And yes EG, health care costs in the US are beyond the pale. But, who are we to tell doctors and nurses how much their jobs are worth? Health care on the surface may be considered a "human right", but it's still something that must be paid for.

I figure I pay enough taxes in this country (I'm sure most other taxpayers agree), so where's the money going to come from?

We have 330 million people in this country, yet only about 165 million work. HALF. So for every American who is working, they are not only providing for themselves, but an entire other person! It's bullshit.

Humans simply need to look at nature for the solution: survival of the fittest. Those that chose not to participate in a meaningful life, bettering themselves and those around them until they get too old to do so, serve no purpose to a country and it's society.
 
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Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
We have 330 million people in this country, yet only about 165 million work. HALF. So for every American who is working, they are not only providing for themselves, but an entire other person! It's bullshit.

That number of workers represents taxpayers and those on payroll. There are significant numbers that do work, but don't pay taxes and aren't on any official payroll.

You have drug dealers, people avoiding child support, gig workers and even the wealthy- they don't earn any money, their trusts do. They don't pay taxes because they didn't earn any money.
 
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