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Are we losing expertise and institutional knowledge?

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jccaclimber

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Location
San Francisco
Being owned by a banker vs some other rich guy in a suit probably has a lot more to do with the timeframe that banker wants to make money on than the fact that they are a banker.
TRW Automotive was spun off from the aerospace side by a non banker, and ultimately rebuilt because the bankers that owned it could make more money rebuilding it and eventually selling it to a German company than shredding it for parts.
I’d trust Warren Buffet, a banker, as the owner of my employer a lot more than say Musk or Bezos as the suit at the top.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Being owned by a banker vs some other rich guy in a suit probably has a lot more to do with the timeframe that banker wants to make money on than the fact that they are a banker.
TRW Automotive was spun off from the aerospace side by a non banker, and ultimately rebuilt because the bankers that owned it could make more money rebuilding it and eventually selling it to a German company than shredding it for parts.
I’d trust Warren Buffet, a banker, as the owner of my employer a lot more than say Musk or Bezos as the suit at the top.
San Francisco?
Some management team 'ya got running that place.
Management of San Fran by Buffet or Musk? Doubt they could sort it out.
 
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gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
More liberal horseshit.

The labor participation rate (of eligible-aged workers) is currently about 65%.

What's wrong with 100% participation of those able to work?

I've worked hard for my money, sacrificed my entire life really in pursuit of a career. I don't give a shit if some deadbeat who had the same opportunities but chose not to pursue them, doesn't have health insurance or goes hungry.

We need more hunger in this country for the deadbeats. Nothing motivates a man like a growling belly...
Yeah put all those old people back to work, no more SS payments for you
high school students, to work with you
You college students, to the workhouse with you
Women raising kids, bring em to work lazy broads

You should perhaps not quote statistics you do not understand
Or perhaps the drive to turn the US into a third world country belies logic
more hunger indeed
Burundi and Tanzania have admirable workforce participation rates
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
Speaking of lost knowledge, how did they drill the holes for all of those rivets? Did they have massive mag drills back in the day? I work in a 100+ year old factory and there must be more than a million lie 1" rivets holding it together. I assume they must have been match drilled onsite.
More probably punched as that was how they did it in the pre welding days.
 

jaguar36

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
SE, PA
More probably punched as that was how they did it in the pre welding days.
Were they match punched on site? Did they have portable punches back then? I can’t imagine it would be easy to have the holes lineup if they were punched at the mill. Musta been a hefty bit of kit to punch a 1” hole through a couple layers of thick steel in the pre-hydraulic days.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I would guess that they had hydraulics?
No?

A "C frame" hydro punch makes sense for the bridge, but how does that work with a big sheet of steel in the hull of a ship?

It seems like I have seen vids of big C frame punches dangling from cables - presumably a zero G type hoist?
Or just some spring loaded deal of sorts?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
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implmex

Diamond
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Location
Vancouver BC Canada
Hi jaguar36:
Have you heard of "bridge reamers"?
Their purpose is to line ream punched or pre-drilled holes to get them to line up for a rivet.
So far as I know they've been around for a long time.
I don't know how they were spun in the days before power tools.

One of my colleagues, when I was just a wee apprentice, used to love telling the tale of a couple of guys tasked with reaming a bunch of holes in a big girder using a jackhammer-sized pneumatic drill and a bridge reamer.
Two cheater bars to hold the drill against rotation, so two guys to man the drill.
The old guy told the young guy, "whatever you do...don't let go of the drill...just hang on if it grabs and it'll just bust the reamer".

You all know what comes next...the drill grabbed, the young guy panicked and ran, the drill started to rotate, the pneumatic hose wrapped around the old guy so he couldn't let go of the trigger, and the rotating drill beat the shit out of the old guy.
Apparently he was not badly hurt, but mad enough to chase the young guy all over the shop with a hammer.
I have no idea if it's a true story.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
What?

You apparently read what he posted.
And you think he got axed b/c of his view point?

I don't even know what his view point was.
I didn't read that far, and I don't even remember which side of the isle he appeared to be on.
It didn't matter.

I can go back and read it all if somehow it matters?

I am cornfused tho, from your post above, which "side" doo you think is getting squorshed?


.. and who is Gentile in this case?
I'm a Kraut, so, no, I'm not a Jew.
What does that have to doo with the number of chipmunks that died in California mudslides in 1937?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
I did not get to read all of it, but I got the email messages when he posted, and read a little bit, however when I came to the forum they had been removed. I assumed his crass offensive nature was what he was banned for, not necessarily his message, but members who are posting in this thread have said worse, so it begs the question. (See the post several pages back calling those with opposing views "stupid assholes")

The Gentile reference was to Jim Rozen (and several others), and to his ignorance. It is not gen-tile, as in Jew or gentile. The point was that he has been consumed by his vile hatred, and while he may have started from a good place with good intentions, he has lost his way.

The Gentile reference is important two fold, because it speaks directly to your question, and the banned posters point. You questioned "which side" without understanding that his posts come from outside the two points of view. I am not speaking to "which side" as he was not speaking to "which side". Many of the posters here are ignorant to the fact that they are fighting to separate two "sides" that are inextricably linked. Two sides of the same coin. On the political spectrum, they are blue fascists, arguing with red fascists, they worship the state and look to leverage government controls against their opponents. The word fascist today is a buzz word, without any relevant understanding of its origin or definition. Fascism has nothing to do with white supremacy, though some fascists are white supremacist's. Fascism has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, though some fascists are anti-Semitic. Most fascists are neither white supremacist's nor anti-Semitic. They are your neighbors, your friends, your family who thinks the government should be leveraged against a business, or group of people, to impede or promote.

Jim Rozen, Emmanuel Goldstein, and several others here are ardent fascists. They are the ones that want to leverage government controls against people, whether that is to get what they want, or prohibit what they don't want. To regulate how they live their lives. Which intrinsically means leveraging the threat of violence, through government, to force people to live how they want them to live. So with the Gentile reference, I can call them what they are, fascists, and they are too ignorant of their own affinity to understand the reference. But they are what they are, fascists.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I did not get to read all of it, but I got the email messages when he posted, and read a little bit, however when I came to the forum they had been removed. I assumed his crass offensive nature was what he was banned for, not necessarily his message, but members who are posting in this thread have said worse, so it begs the question. (See the post several pages back calling those with opposing views "stupid assholes")

Well, a known member making a snide remark now and aggin is one thing.
A brand new member starting off his second post with that level of vile is on a different level.

So, you think that we should be purging members with Fascist views?


EG, you are correct, one doesn't mean the other, especially when my kin all got out LONG before the 30 yr war.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
Well, a known member making a snide remark now and aggin is one thing.
A brand new member starting off his second post with that level of vile is on a different level.

So, you think that we should be purging members with Fascist views?


EG, you are correct, one doesn't mean the other, especially when my kin all got out LONG before the 30 yr war.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

No, I don't think we should be purging the fascists'. That was my point. Thankfully, they tend to purge themselves :)
 

jccaclimber

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Location
San Francisco
San Francisco?
Some management team 'ya got running that place.
Management of San Fran by Buffet or Musk? Doubt they could sort it out.
I meant companies not cities. I lived in DFW, TX before this so try not to make too many assumptions. No disagreement about SF having a pile of problems. Turns out single party rule is bad no matter which party it is.
I ended up here for a job where my end of year savings post taxes and housing is greater than my pretax income in Texas. When the reverse becomes true I’ll move back.
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"They are the ones that want to leverage government controls against people, whether that is to get what they want, or prohibit what they don't want. To regulate how they live their lives."

Got me dead to rights. I pointed out that not everyone of working age CAN work, or DOES work. And further Those that do, pay TAXES to support elderly, disabled, and those who get social security income otherwise. Not to mention vets who recieve VA care. I also claim that one critical measure of a society is indeed how they care for elderly, disabled, and the poor.

Complaining bitterly about how one is "supporting an entire other person!" means the complaintant puts himself first all the time.

Yes I probably support a wnole 'nother person - it's a matter of pride for me, and should be for every citizen of the US. If it makes me a fascist in your book, so be it.
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
"They are the ones that want to leverage government controls against people, whether that is to get what they want, or prohibit what they don't want. To regulate how they live their lives."

Got me dead to rights. I pointed out that not everyone of working age CAN work, or DOES work. And further Those that do, pay TAXES to support elderly, disabled, and those who get social security income otherwise. Not to mention vets who recieve VA care. I also claim that one critical measure of a society is indeed how they care for elderly, disabled, and the poor.

Complaining bitterly about how one is "supporting an entire other person!" means the complaintant puts himself first all the time.

Yes I probably support a wnole 'nother person - it's a matter of pride for me, and should be for every citizen of the US. If it makes me a fascist in your book, so be it.
If your hope is to make yourself pious, by the assertion that threatening violence to obtain what you want makes your actions somehow moral, you have failed on several counts. 99% of your day is spent putting yourself first, as is mine. I am sure that you have countless assets that would better serve other people. If you want to be hyperbolic and act as though your are a martyr for being proud of your malevolence and love of violence by all means continue. At least you have the comprehension to understand that you are a fascist.

One critical measure of a society is indeed, how they care for their elderly, disabled, and poor. Holding a gun to someone's head taking their money and spending it on something else, and then berating the person for their lack of caring does not make you a moral person. By any measure, any measure, the government is a absolute failure in helping people. Please feel free to dig deep and pull numbers that show the efficacy of the Federal Government in helping people. Every SINGLE ONE of my friends has been let down by the VA. Every single one of them has had to seek private treatment with private funds. I have a friend who works with an organization, I would be thrilled to give you his number, who does nothing but help people the government has failed to help. They built an entire organization that helps people, with absolutely no federal, state, or local funding, so that it can actually help. My mother in law has 40 years of stories of government, state, and local failures working in public health. She regularly meets with people to advocate, discuss, and try and figure out how to help people, privately, because the government is such an epic failure.

In the Covid 2020 bill they passed included $4 billion dollars in "homeless assistance", that's $6,872 per homeless person in the US according to the National Alliance to End Homelessness. $320 million dollars was set aside to "end child homelessness". You know who helped to end child homelessness? Not the federal government, my mother in law. That $320 million has evaporated without even make a single percentage of difference. My mother in law made a difference though, she paid out of her own pocket to help an illegal Pakistani family who the government turned down for assistance, who turned them down for a green card, after approving them for amnesty due to religious and political persecution.

So let me be clear so that you can hopefully understand this in your addled brain. Using violence to force your views on people, no matter how altruistic, is still of violence. You are advocating and worshiping the LEAST effective and efficient means. You want to strut around "Proud" that you are literally, not figuratively, forcing people to turn over their money to a system that hurts more than it helps, costs more than it benefits, by every metric.

Private altruism will always benefit others more efficiently, more effectively, and with better results for both parties.

I recommend you read Bastiat's The Law, written long before the word fascism was created.
 
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Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I really don't know how you got to this point?
But apparently you have been holding this in for some time eh?

Last I knew we were talking about bridge reamers, hydraulic punches, and castings.

Doo you feel better now?
Can we get on with life now?


How about neither of you post in this thread again 'till Monday.
OK?


-------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
I’d trust Warren Buffet, a banker, as the owner of my employer a lot more than say Musk or Bezos as the suit at the top.
The underlying trouble is the same for all bankers. They are in it for the money, which is what banking is all about. If your company is like Holt, in it for farm equipment because for some reason farm equipment is what you like, then you are going to weather a downturn by getting creative or whatever, then when things pick up back to making farm equipment, because that's who you are.

If it's owned by a bank, then all bets are off. Maybe you are lucky to be owned by Mr Buffet, who seems to think a little farther down the road. But 99% of bankers can only think of tomorrow and even if they think of next week, they aren't going to make any decisions except based on money. They don't care about farm equipment, unless it looks like they can get 137.5% return on their "investment" (which is mostly money handed out for free by the fed anyhow). All decisions for them are based on money, not the product of the company.

It leads to a totally diffferent society. Almost feudal, in fact.

Ox said:
EG, you are correct, one doesn't mean the other, especially when my kin all got out LONG before the 30 yr war.
Was just pulling your leg a little :D

Mine too ... but you say long before the Thirty Years War ? In 1618 ? That's when mine came. (Well, somewhat after, but that was the war that destroyed the palatine and caused the exodus).

how does that work with a big sheet of steel in the hull of a ship?
They were mostly cast iron until WW II-ish ? Or wrought iron ? The Titanic being a famous example ?

Fat Grunt said:
(See the post several pages back calling those with opposing views "stupid assholes")
I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of "opposing views". The people I call "stupid assholes" would be, for example, the city of san francisco which pays 1.5 million dollars to install one (1) toilet in a park. Or $250,000 each for six (6) trash cans so people can choose which style they like. Or takes ten years to build a subway that's three blocks long and, of course, costs six times as much as it's supposed to. Or more applicable to this thread, the people like Carl Icahn and Kirk Kerkorian and their brood, who destroyed the entire US machine tool industry so that those ten or twenty people could become rich beyond their wildest dreams.

The people at Rexnord, who destroyed Falk so they could make ten bucks more putting up a shopping center on that land ? I don't call them stupid assholes. I have worse words for those (*&^%$# pieces of shit. You might consider that to be a "different opinion" but I can make a pretty good case that it's actually shredding US society for the sake of a few cents for a few worthless leech "investors" who are better classified as "blood-sucking filth and scum". Investors produce nothing but they have been wildly successful at wrecking a society that wasn't half-bad.

Those are the people I consider stupid assholes (or worse), and not for 'opposing views'.
 
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PDW

Diamond
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
Australia (Hobart)
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, lack of doctors and nurses is a daily topic in the news in Australia.

Foreign doctors are under qualified so you send them to the bush where they need to work for a few years. Last time I checked all of the human species had their organs and limbs in the same position, this is despite that fact that some seem to have their heads jammed firmly up their backside.

On a side note I fell ill in Shanghai on a business trip in 2017, the only thing that saved my life were the Chinese doctors and nurses with their sub standard training. And no I was not treated by some special foreigner specific doctor. The hospital was cleaner and more well organised than the private hospital back in Australia. And the nurses were a damn sight more attentive and attractive.

You seem to have totally missed the point but honestly, I can't be bothered parsing what you wrote for content, so whatever.

You keep your 'best in the world' health system and ignore the statistics if that's what makes you happy. Mind you don't get sick or injured to the point where your coverage level is gone, though, because then you'll be bankrupt.

I think my GF has 5 Filipina friends who are nurses, incidentally. They come to Australia and stay here.

PDW
 

PDW

Diamond
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
Australia (Hobart)
Question Mark is from Australia ...



It's that bad down there, hunh ?
Whatevs, man, I don't really care. If he;s not happy with Aussie health care, fine.

Funny thing, a Kiwi mate of mine was anchored up not far from my place a month back. Had an acute attack of gall bladder stones. His wife is an MD, loaded him with morphine, they got the boat back to what passes for civilisation, called an ambulance, he was taken off to hospital and operated on within 24 hours.

Cost to him? $0.00. And as I said he's not even an Aussie.

So, if it's an emergency, you'll get the best care & treatment available. You won't go bankrupt.

If you're not happy with that, see my first responses.

It's far from perfect, it's underfunded, it's got too many drones compared with doctors, nurses and med tech people, but it's still not bad.

PDW
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
Whatevs, man, I don't really care. If he;s not happy with Aussie health care, fine.

Just pointing out he was from Australia, you seemed to have missed that part.

If you're not happy with that, see my first responses.

Personally, none of this matters to me, when I get sick I'll die, that's fine. But you seem to have a chip on your shoulder these days.
 
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