Are we losing expertise and institutional knowledge?

[PDW]

Just pointing out he was from Australia, you seemed to have missed that part.



Personally, none of this matters to me, when I get sick I'll die, that's fine. But you seem to have a chip on your shoulder these days.

No, not really, just busy. And I'm kind of tired of people from the USA bitching about 'socialist' places when they actually have NFI what they're talking about, while boosting their own totally fucked health care system. Ours isn't perfect by far but nobody but the exploiters would ever swap to the US method of delivery.

I did miss he was an Aussie because either he doesn't have it in the little box on the LHS or I just missed reading it, whichever.

Next boat project is now in the shed. A 10m powerboat hull.

PDW

 

[LOTT]

And I'm kind of tired of people from the USA bitching about 'socialist' places when they actually have NFI what they're talking about, while boosting their own totally fucked health care system. Ours isn't perfect by far but nobody but the exploiters would ever swap to the US method of delivery.

I for one am not complaining about your socialist system, I'm complaining about the socialist one here in the U.S.

The underlying trouble is the same for all bankers. They are in it for the money, which is what banking is all about. If your company is like Holt, in it for farm equipment because for some reason farm equipment is what you like, then you are going to weather a downturn by getting creative or whatever, then when things pick up back to making farm equipment, because that's who you are.

You're half right. The major difference is instant vs delayed gratification (your referenced timelines). You can see the effect not just in business, but marriage, health, every aspect of life. Obesity, affairs, all wreck lives for short term satisfaction.

There are long term investors, and there are day traders. The are business owners that plan how to pass the enterprise to their children, and there are owners who only want the next dollar.

Either way, it's a reflection of the individual and not his occupation. Maybe more are attracted to one job or another, but that's secondary.

 

[EmGo]

I for one am not complaining about your socialist system, I'm complaining about the socialist one here in the U.S.

If you think the US "health care" system is socialist, eek

There are long term investors, and there are day traders ...

Either way, it's a reflection of the individual and not his occupation. Maybe more are attracted to one job or another, but that's secondary.

Not really. There are people who care about what they do, that's their primary interest while the money side is essential but not the focus. And there are people who care about the money, while whatever the business is may be necessary but that's not the focus.

Finance guys, as we have seen time after time after time, basically destroy a business. GM, IBM, Enron, Falk, all examples that jump to mind. That's because a business isn't really about money. It's about delivering a product or service. The money is essential but it's not the goal. If you are a finance guy, the product or service does not matter, it's all about the money.

Warren Buffet is a bit of a unicorn. Using him as an example is like using George Washington as an example of president. Sure, once every 250 years you get one (1).

 

[PDW]

I for one am not complaining about your socialist system, I'm complaining about the socialist one here in the U.S.

And there is your problem. You don't have a socialist system at all, you have a system that's somewhere between oligarch capitalism moving towards feudalism. All the while with decreasing scores in education, life expectancy and life satisfaction. The middle class is shrinking all the time. Part time jobs, zero hours contracts and the entire 'gig' caper could have been DESIGNED to remove secure pay and opportunities from the mass of the population.

You think what you have is socialism? Now THERE is a great example of brainwashing.

PDW

 

[jim rozen]

" Holding a gun to someone's head taking their money and spending it on something else..."

Not sure who collects your taxes at the point of a firearm but for the record (for the benefit of *your* addled brain) what you just described there comes under the general heading of "taxes" and if you don't want to pay your taxes well good luck to you. Have a nice day.

 

[Scottl]

Were they match punched on site? Did they have portable punches back then? I can’t imagine it would be easy to have the holes lineup if they were punched at the mill. Musta been a hefty bit of kit to punch a 1” hole through a couple layers of thick steel in the pre-hydraulic days.

I believe they were punched undersize and reamed to proper size and alignment on-site.

 

[kpotter]

Stuff can be relearned. I had to figure out how they made dies over 100 years ago. I tried talking to old guys but the guys I needed to talk to died in the 50s. We have the same tools and we are just as smart. We can figure it out.

 

[EmGo]

Stuff can be relearned. I had to figure out how they made dies over 100 years ago. I tried talking to old guys but the guys I needed to talk to died in the 50s. We have the same tools and we are just as smart. We can figure it out.

Sure. But this is not a good attitude - it's the accountant's attitude and they don't know doodly-shit. It's certainly not without a cost.

I have personally seen two sides of this : in the seventies there were lots of guys in shops who really knew their stuff. Meanwhile China did not have one forklift in the entire country, it took four hours to drive what now takes nine minutes.

Fast forward to now : look at the questions here, 2/3 of them are stupid. Meanwhile, China contestants win at the worldwide cadcam competitions, factories are full of five-axis mills, there's not a single Made in USA product on the shelves (yeah, "artisanal" con artists succesfully peddle their 2,000% overpriced doodads but that ain't manufacturing) ...

Sure, it could be turned around. But it ain't gonna be. You guys are too busy fighting over whether some guy who imagines he's Farrah Fawcett can go pee in the girl's bathroom to actually develop a plan and stick to it for twenty years. Knowledge and experience are not free.

 

[standardparts]

Sure. But this is not a good attitude - it's the accountant's attitude and they don't know doodly-shit. It's certainly not without a cost.

I have personally seen two sides of this : in the seventies there were lots of guys in shops who really knew their stuff. Meanwhile China did not have one forklift in the entire country, it took four hours to drive what now takes nine minutes.

Fast forward to now : look at the questions here, 2/3 of them are stupid. Meanwhile, China contestants win at the worldwide cadcam competitions, factories are full of five-axis mills, there's not a single Made in USA product on the shelves (yeah, "artisanal" con artists succesfully peddle their 2,000% overpriced doodads but that ain't manufacturing) ...

Sure, it could be turned around. But it ain't gonna be. You guys are too busy fighting over whether some guy who imagines he's Farrah Fawcett can go pee in the girl's bathroom to actually develop a plan and stick to it for twenty years. Knowledge and experience are not free.

'Farrah Fawcett'...careful gramps your dating yourself....
But you Chinese certainly are the best at copies, knockoffs, and downright theft of other people's intellectual property. Not complaining, being in business is like war in a way and obviously China did what China does best. Copy.
Can't imagine what your copy of Farrah Fawcett looked like.

 

[DDoug]

Conrad is great, just friendly conversation. My point was that there is still a spirit of American ingenuity out there, although not quite as commonplace as it used to be. I suppose that is the consequence of peace.

I would say the American spirit is at a low point not because of peace, rather by being knocked down at every turn.

 

[gbent]

Hard times bring hard men. Hard men bring good times. Good times bring soft men. Soft men bring hard times.

 

[Thunderjet]

I would say the American spirit is at a low point not because of peace, rather by being knocked down at every turn.

I don't think its low spirits as much as apathy.

We are to busy doing shit to give a fuck anymore.

There are folks that will learn to do the skilled stuff as soon as they figure out that working from home is a unicorn that doesn't pay off in the end.

 

[Bill D]

I would say in a USA doctors office at least one non doctor is there just to do insurance paperwork. Not as high paid as nurses but easy 10% of all the non doctor salaries goes to deal with insurance. Plus they need to pay for a bigger office.They have to have a seperate insurance office and insurance files.
Bill D

 

[DDoug]

I don't think its low spirits as much as apathy.

We are to busy doing shit to give a fuck anymore.

There are folks that will learn to do the skilled stuff as soon as they figure out that working from home is a unicorn that doesn't pay off in the end.

That took an odd turn.
I design stuff for (to be used & built) every corner of the globe, my job I could easily be done at home, but I don't want to.

 

[Thunderjet]

That took an odd turn.
I design stuff for (to be used & built) every corner of the globe, my job I could easily be done at home, but I don't want to.

Mine couldn't, but that's not the point I was trying to make.

I think many companies are competing to get employees, not simply based on wages, but also based on work environment.

For many folks, the pandemic broke their work ethic, so to speak.

It showed them that they could work from home, not drive in, not deal with the boss directly, and not have to talk to anyone if they didn't want to.

Now, we can't go back.

Well for many companies, this will not work and this is a disadvantage. You can't make up for rolling out of bed and working in your jammies.

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[DDoug]

Mine couldn't, but that's not the point I was trying to make.

I think many companies are competing to get employees, not simply based on wages, but also based on work environment.

For many folks, the pandemic broke their work ethic, so to speak.

It showed them that they could work from home, not drive in, not deal with the boss directly, and not have to talk to anyone if they didn't want to.

Now, we can't go back.

Well for many companies, this will not work and this is a disadvantage. You can't make up for rolling out of bed and working in your jammies.

That was the point I was trying to make.

My point was about an individual starting a company, and all the legal hoops, taxation, rules, permits, and constant liability coming in from all sides.

 

[Thunderjet]

My point was about an individual starting a company, and all the legal hoops, taxation, rules, permits, and constant liability coming in from all sides.

Then there's all that also.

Let's hope things start to turn around soon.

 

[Garwood]

My point was about an individual starting a company, and all the legal hoops, taxation, rules, permits, and constant liability coming in from all sides.

I can definitely agree with this. I have come to believe the only way it can be done is if you put considerable effort into exploiting gray areas and loopholes in the law.

It makes me wonder what our system would look like if we encouraged small manufacturing business instead of squashing them with rules and regulations.

I moved away from the city and bought farmland because everything agriculturally related is shored up, protected and encouraged in this country. Like we fucking need more ethanol grade corn, wine grapes, grass seed for golf courses or horse boarding.

 

[marccongdon]

I can definitely agree with this. I have come to believe the only way it can be done is if you put considerable effort into exploiting gray areas and loopholes in the law.

It makes me wonder what our system would look like if we encouraged small manufacturing business instead of squashing them with rules and regulations.

I moved away from the city and bought farmland because everything agriculturally related is shored up, protected and encouraged in this country. Like we fucking need more ethanol grade corn, wine grapes, grass seed for golf courses or horse boarding.

The worst part is anything that starts out as an attempt to help small business gets poked full of holes and exceptions until it's just a new way for a big business to exploit and dump their shit on everyone around them.

As far as socialist healthcare goes, a single payer government funded healthcare system would do wonders for employee recruitment and retention in the trades and small business's. When I had an automotive shop we lost a few guys over the years to dealers and national shops because we simply couldn't compete on the benefits package. I've known a few people who got out of a manual labor style job and found something more office oriented specifically because they saw someone get totally fucked by the healthcare system after getting hurt.

 

[TaperPin]

Get a kick out of listening to shop owners complaining about the skill level of their employees, yet they simplify everything and pigeonhole employees on one simple task so they don’t have to be paid more. I don’t blame kids for not wanting to join a group of unskilled low paid coworkers where one picks up the dog poop, another carries it to the next station, there it’s loaded into the Shit-O-Matic, then another crap carrier wraps it up, and yet another throws it in the dumpster.

I about fell over when an “apprentice“ machinist was fascinated because he hadn’t worked a 4 jaw before - he’s a pos laborer the owner was trying to use to save money.