At whits end with a employee

[sbrooks]

I own a small manual/cnc machine shop now for going on 10 years. We do everything from repair to light production work with a crew of 3 plus myself. I have hired this young 21 year old fresh out of college from taking manual machinist back last May/22. We have spent time and hour upon hours teaching him the trade since then. We had the usual hurdles of being young and not knowing the trade or how a shop environment is kept. Cell phone was a issue which I had to bring in a written no phone policy into the shop on clocked in time. Got that out of the way great now he will focus more on learning the trade. He is smart by the book on knowledge but seems to to just lazy and not interested in actually working while at work. He seems to be getting slower and slower. I have moved him from learning cnc (because he didnt like that and I didnt trust him to do setups or programming because his attention span was not there amd he coildnt even be teusted to pay attention to the work holdong to ensure a chip was cleared before putting in a blank ) to the simple jobs in the shop. Now he has went to a turtle speed. I stay right at him to push him and work on the shop floor with the guys all day machining cause I love it. Always yawning and leaning on the machines. Work space is cluttered and tools piled on the bench. I have repeatedly told him its not how this shop is to be kept. Clean up after job is complete and that time get billed to that job. Simple as that.

The kid is likable... he showed potential the first 6 months. Now we are going back wards. Im not sure how to approach this situation next... He doesnt even make his wages billable every day at this point. I have stood over him and pushed him and know he actually can work at a speed that is billable hours.... or if a customer is there waiting for a part he flys through it. But the other 95% of the time it takes him 3 times as long to machine something simple such as a shaft with a couple downs and a thread shouldnt take 3 hours to do on a brand new lathe with all the inserted tooling available for the trade.


Eveyone says fire him let him go. Before I do that... whats the suggestions here with experienced guys on here. Im sure other shops deal with this. At this point we cant do anything less in the shop than make pins and bosses or drill holes. Jist did the time sheets for the week and its not possible to bill out the hours to make his wages because of him having a 6-7 hours labour in a job thats 2 hours tops and simple. The worse of it all.. i know he can machine when he wants to but is being lazy and is smart at the trade book wise....Any suggestions before I give him the pink slip?

 

[CarbideBob]

Just fire him and try again. Do this enough and someone will learn something.
Lord knows I did this so many times.

 

[DDoug]

Try piecework........

 

[sbrooks]

Just fire him and try again. Do this enough and someone will learn something.
Lord knows I did this so many times.

I know this is the answer... man I like to give ppl the benefit of the doubt lol. It seems to take.about 2 or 3 to find a good one to keep

 

[sbrooks]

Try piecework........

I was just reading that post about that lol he would owe me at pay day lolol

 

[BOB-OO]

IMHO terminate him, or better yet hold him to your standard and he will leave on his own.
Red Flag - motivation - you can't fix that and your wasting your time. Try again with someone else.

 

[Job Shopper TN]

I’d say you have, but have you sat down and just had an honest heart to heart with him? It’s best to get as much of his perspective as possible to try to understand. He may be too far gone. But perhaps you can learn from this experience.

After a firm but fair sit down conversation (conversation- implying some back and forth, input from both sides), and he understands it’s either he performs or it’s his job, you have been as fair as should be expected and if he doesn’t measure up, cut him. But I think everyone deserves that wake-up call.

Perhaps it’s something personal. Perhaps it’s something work related that is trivial to you as a manager but not to him as an employee. Right wrong or indifferent, I think it’s better to spend the time trying to hash it out than assume he’s just another lazy kid. Which, he could be! But I’d find it better to find the root cause if possible.

 

[sbrooks]

I’d say you have, but have you sat down and just had an honest heart to heart with him? It’s best to get as much of his perspective as possible to try to understand. He may be too far gone. But perhaps you can learn from this experience.

After a firm but fair sit down conversation (conversation- implying some back and forth, input from both sides), and he understands it’s either he performs or it’s his job, you have been as fair as should be expected and if he doesn’t measure up, cut him. But I think everyone deserves that wake-up call.

Perhaps it’s something personal. Perhaps it’s something work related that is trivial to you as a manager but not to him as an employee. Right wrong or indifferent, I think it’s better to spend the time trying to hash it out than assume he’s just another lazy kid. Which, he could be! But I’d find it better to find the root cause if possible.

Great points that you have said here. Appreciate the insight. We have had a chat about his neatness and work ethics back 4 months ago at the same time we killed the cell phones in the shop. That almost ruined him with that chat. Then he was good for a month... now he is worse than ever. One more talk is coming reguarding this because I like to give ppl chances. Just im getting fed up. It will be a year this May with us. Worse of all this is... he can machine.... when he wants to or feels like it in a timely fashion. If i gave him the same job a month apart. First time would be say 1 1/2 hour. The second time.... 4 hours... and for no rhyme or reason which i dont get. He runs a year old 22 x 60 lathe. New tooling iscar... best measuring stuff. Just baffles me lol.

 

[davehud]

Bad attitude. Fire him.

 

[Orange Vise]

First time would be say 1 1/2 hour. The second time.... 4 hours...

The second time around, you should've been there 90 minutes in to check up on status.

At that point when you would've found out that he had barely started, he would've had a lot of explaining to do.

 

[john.k]

The 'black mirror' has trained him to be useless......just as Chairman Xi has planned.

 

[Rob F.]

Is he bored, are you not challenging his skills?

 

[Nerv]

Okay, this is just another perspective, hopefully it helps. I went through a phase similar to this young man (As a teen) and things may not be as simple as "he's lazy" or just has a poor attitude. He may have a poor diet, he might have stress issues that is affecting his ability to have a good sleep, I'm not sure. What tells me something isn't right is the yawning.

If you get a great rest and you are busy in the shop you don't start yawning. As Arnie likes say: "When you exercise, you energize". I can run for 2 solid days with no sleep at all as long as I'm busy in the shop and not even feel tired, something is wrong here. Maybe he is addicted to social media or some sort of stimulus that is all too present now pretty much everywhere you look. Maybe, and perhaps even more likely, he has become addicted to a video game at home and has been playing much too long hours on it than he should be? I have seen friends fall into that trap and completely flunk out of college/university. Now it is easier than ever to get hooked onto something digital, and he is quite young yet.

It is easy to just say "Fire him", but you have invested a lot into him and he actually may benefit a great deal from you helping him figure out what is causing his fatigue. With fatigue comes a lack of ability to remember and focus on the task at hand. He may have a sleeping disorder and not even know it. He may have an issue with lactose and not even know it. Some may cry "Weak stock" but if you can help figure this out it may be a win for both of you.

Best of luck!

Dave @ Nerv

 

[john.k]

Simple ...get fired and go on unemployment benefit.......play games and sell a bit of dope.........thats the life young people want

 

[Milland]

I hope you're documenting the issues and taking notes during the talks. If you decide to fire him, it will be useful to show the pattern of malaise and/or malingering, especially if you don't think you should be paying unemployment for the lad.

Following that advice, if we take what you're saying about the guy at face value, AND you've got the records to back you up, fire him. You'll be doing the both of you a favor - he doesn't want to be there, you're not getting value from his labor for what you're paying him.

Let him find another situation where perhaps he'll be a better fit. You've got to get back to finding another person who actually wants the job. Not so easy, but when you've got them it'll take a load off you.

 

[Bondo]

I had an employee who could weld, fab, rig, do anything. But the guy was always sitting on the stool and took 3 days to do a 6 hour job. he was 30 yrs old. Nice guy, I figured I could get him faster. All I ended up doing was wasting a year on him and by him going slow, other employees slowed down and caused a lot of chaos. I ended up having to fire everyone, 3 people at the time, because they all started being like that 1 guy and it was costing me more to run people then to do jobs.

I have had a huge record of people like this. I have always tried way too hard and always lost in the end.

Now, I am a lot happier by saying. Politely. Do it my way, or get the fuck out. It's a lot less stressful and straight to the point.

 

[guythatbrews]

This kid may have some game addiction. It's all too common. My son works for a big big software development firm and guys play the stuff all day long at work. Management takes months to fire them. It's absolutely crazy.

Whatever the kid's problem, I agree with bondo. I've tried too hard to give people second chances and in the end it has rarely worked. And one bad apple can spoil the lot. The day after one guy was fired the feeling in the whole shop improved. He was dragging ten other guys down.

I hope you're documenting the issues and taking notes during the talks. If you decide to fire him, it will be useful to show the pattern of malaise and/or malingering, especially if you don't think you should be paying unemployment for the lad.

And do this! It sounds like you've bern very patient thus far. Time to be frank, set some reasonable goals, and keep records. It seems crazy to us but he may be trying to get fired for unemployment.

 

[john.k]

Its usually .......this a/hole is my daughters boyfriend,she s pregnant ,and no one in their right mind will give him a job....so i have to.

 

[red beard]

Like others have mentioned, his issue probably has nothing to do with what is happening at work. Because of that, your pretty limited in what you can do to change his behavior.

It could be poor habits (poor diet, not enough sleep) or more likely some sort of addiction (gaming, social media, porn, pot, alcohol, etc.) You can't control what he does outside of work. He has to come to the realization that he has a problem and have a desire to change. The only thing you can really do is talk to him. Identify the specific problems with his work, and let him know that you can't afford to keep him unless he changes. Nine times out of ten (probably more like 99 times out of 100) nothing will change, and you will have to fire him.

It sounds like this young man has a lot of potential but will likely not amount to anything if he doesn't change. Getting fired may be the motivation to make some changes in his life, or at least it may be a step down that path. At this point, firing him may be the most helpful thing you can do for him.

 

[broke]

If he was showing proficiency then it dropped off, you at least knows the potential is there.

You're not a guidance counselor so you don't have any moral reason to put up with an underperforming worker but if you can dig a little you might be able to get his head straight.

When is the last time he has seen any kind of praise for the work he does well?

There is a lot of youth bashing going on here. I have a few month in with a 22yo and he has a great work ethic. It wasn't that long ago we were the "young punks" who wanted computers on their milling machines.