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At whits end with a employee

Most old timers here will recall the days when a lot of workers ---and bosses----were alcoholics ............and usually had bottles hidden in the toilet cisterns ....bosses always had a bottle of whisky in the desk drawer.
My dad had one working for him for years. Smart guy, but a heavy drinking problem. He'd do a six pack for breakfast, then come in to the shop slammed. Same for lunch. One day, dad couldn't take it any more and out the door he went, but the damage was done.
 
My dad had one working for him for years. Smart guy, but a heavy drinking problem. He'd do a six pack for breakfast, then come in to the shop slammed. Same for lunch. One day, dad couldn't take it any more and out the door he went, but the damage was done.

Nowadays you have to get them out asap. If they hurt themselves or others, you'll lose your business to the next of kin's lawyers.
 
In my experience its not necessarily an age thing, I have some killer young guys. I qualify that with, maybe that age group has a higher percentage of flakey employees, but every demographic has some and always has, its your job to avoid those and find the profitable ones.

I always looked at it like this. Its very possible to train a motivated smart person who doesnt know the particular job but wants too. Its very challenging to teach a work ethic where the will just isnt there even if the knowledge is.

I would round file this guy and find one that wants to go places. Just because an applicant checks all the boxes doesnt make them a good fit, find a good fit, and start to get the remaining boxes checked together.
 
Nowadays you have to get them out asap. If they hurt themselves or others, you'll lose your business to the next of kin's lawyers.
You're 100% right. I used to warn dad and he'd blow it off. One day, I mentioned it in front of his attorney and the guy let dad know that he was playing with a hand grenade by letting the guy stay. No insurance policy is going to cover you if the drunk gets ground into sausage.
 
You stated he likes machining and did good work for a while. It could be he was gaming the system which others said. Could be a lifestyle problem...we all chased the girls when we were young. Multiple studies have shown you NEED 8hrs of sleep. We can go off of 6-7 , heck 4hrs, but most here know we are struggling to hold tolerance and to remember to do shit. He may be doing this exact thing. Sit down with him and have a NICE talk.A little chit chat. Let him know the business side of things. Let him know how much that nice new lathe cost. Got a clapped out one to throw him on to show him what slop looks like? Another thing may be a bad employee telling him to slow down or that he is not making enough that you don't suspect. See what happens if you bring up drug testing.
If he is as smart as you say, what it truly may be is that he thinks there is a better faster way to do the job and you refuse to get with the times(he may be right or confused because of all the "influencers"). If you are not paying him at least $17hr starting that is the problem.
 
Typical peanut gallery dribble that have never funded a payroll. The slacker shined thru the 90-day probation period, right? Now shifts gears to provoking being released to milk unemployment. At least that's how it works here in Vermont. Yeah, I can play the game. Make his life so F'n miserable he quits. Derails his unemployment plans. And yes, I've gone to arbitration over a hostile work environment. Just detail the loyalty of all other employees, generous bonuses, and flexible shifts/time off to allow for an ailing family member. Life is too short to tolerate idiots.
That's a waste of time and likely to kill morale with other employees.

Being brand new, he probably showed promise in his ability to learn, but stagnated. We've had people just hit a ceiling on the amount of training they could absorb, and we've had to fire them despite them doing their best.
 
You stated he likes machining and did good work for a while. It could be he was gaming the system which others said. Could be a lifestyle problem...we all chased the girls when we were young. Multiple studies have shown you NEED 8hrs of sleep. ......
I wrote a reply yesterday, and the "Women weaken legs" concept was definitely a theory. But I did have any ideas for motivation other than to suspend without pay for a week and just decided it would not work.

Slept on it and this popped into my head. Tell him he has to get up to speed. Each day you are going to give him a days work and he cannot leave until it is done.

Also, a couple of days in, possibly after an improved days work, explain how the business works, overhead, expenses profit margin and loss. A business that does not compete goes under. Enough detail so he can understand you are not able to pay him to sit on his hands, just can't. Tell him when you are gone some other guy maybe him, will telling some other young guy the same thing. This will teach him to set goals and that the world, business and otherwise, is competitive just like sports. He is a player on your team and you both have competitors.

Also, this is a limited offer due to longer days are not profitable and coaches cannot play the game for their players. Set goals, compete and win. Winning, at first, is job satisfaction and later as he can see for himself, it is more responsibility, respect and earnings.

Oh ya, that girl or maybe another might stick around.

If he is truly hopeless, he will be gone in two weeks. Do not forget to keep score.
 
Employees, can't live with them, can't live without them.

So I am know as a "nice" boss and many that have left for more money come back knocking on the door.
One thing I have learned to do be it right or wrong to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Make the first 90 days to six months hell on earth.
Totally unrealistic expectations and demands. Sort of like boot camp and drill Sargent.
Push, push, push, even when you feel bad about doing it.

Your people will go off the rails for many reasons. Then only you can decide how much effort to put in getting them back on track.
You can not allow poison in the shop.
This spreads fast and normally you will get feedback from the others here but be careful here as sometimes it just personally clashes and then you wonder where you signed up to be family counselor.

T'is frustrating but can also be so rewarding.
Kicked out employee gets lit up on who knows what and comes in the back door with his deer rifle looking for me.
My guys and gal made a wall and told him NO. Adjusted for inflation these people making $15-$25 per hour in today's money.

Do you want to bring this person back into the fold or do you want to start over?
Both of these are going to bring you work and effort.

Have fun.. this is why you are the boss.
You have three? May God bless you and you grow to have 60 or more.
Bob
 
My boss used to "game " the system ,rich man style......there was all kinds of subsidies for putting on....'long term unemployed'....15yrs old who'd left school,.........teen offenders...older unemployed....women ..etc etc ......he would pick them a lot more carefully than regular workers ,because he wanted them to quit just after the six months was up.....so he would get the $5k,$6K,$7k subsidies offered by the government.........if they looked like staying on,he d ride them until they quit,and he could get another subsidy.........He and his business partner used to pocket the money ,never declare it for tax.
 
If you liked this guy at one time, I would say sit his ass down and bring these same concerns you've outlined here up directly with him. Ask why the change has occurred and see what his response is. Maybe there is a reason. Maybe he is just not as good a fit as you thought he might have been. You'll never know if you don't ask and try to get to the bottom of it. Give him the exact same information you've told us: about jobs that used to be done in a couple hours now taking 3 times as long and whatever else you've got. Write it down ahead of time so you don't forget and so that you don't lose your patience or get angry. Distill it down from a bunch of written rambling thoughts to a coherent message, then sit him down and go over it point by point. At the end, ask him if he wants to keep the job or not. His response should dictate yours. If he has some sort of issue that sounds reasonable, decide whether you want to try to work it out or not. If he is just being an entitled shit, can him.
 
If you liked this guy at one time, I would say sit his ass down and bring these same concerns you've outlined here up directly with him. Ask why the change has occurred and see what his response is. Maybe there is a reason. Maybe he is just not as good a fit as you thought he might have been. You'll never know if you don't ask and try to get to the bottom of it. Give him the exact same information you've told us: about jobs that used to be done in a couple hours now taking 3 times as long and whatever else you've got. Write it down ahead of time so you don't forget and so that you don't lose your patience or get angry. Distill it down from a bunch of written rambling thoughts to a coherent message, then sit him down and go over it point by point. At the end, ask him if he wants to keep the job or not. His response should dictate yours. If he has some sort of issue that sounds reasonable, decide whether you want to try to work it out or not. If he is just being an entitled shit, can him.
Many shop owners are superstar machinist that decide to go hang out your own shingle.
And then these the problems.
Normal people do not like to have address things that are like dad lecturing me or prying into....
Two ways out and one a lot of work. Second is fire and get a new one then hope and pray that works out.
Seems many here like "toss him to the curb". That is easy.
Then you need a replacement. Will this one be better?
 
Are you a social worker /occupational therapist/licensed psychologist?.....dealing with clever young assholes who know how to wind you up isnt good for your wellbeing.......manipulative behavior 101.
 
Simple ...get fired and go on unemployment benefit.......play games and sell a bit of dope.........thats the life young people want

And maybe you're having a bad day, John. I don't live in Australia, but here in Vermont, the youngsters are pretty savvy and plucky, to the point that I'd rather one of them took over my business.

But maybe it has to do with the company we keep.
 
Many shop owners are superstar machinist that decide to go hang out your own shingle.
And then these the problems.
Normal people do not like to have address things that are like dad lecturing me or prying into....
Two ways out and one a lot of work. Second is fire and get a new one then hope and pray that works out.
Seems many here like "toss him to the curb". That is easy.
Then you need a replacement. Will this one be better?

If they don't like being talked to in the manner I described, I guess that's too bad. They are the employee and the boss IS sort of like a dad. If there's a problem there, then I agree they should be canned. There are good, reasonable people and people from the other end of the spectrum. I recommend filling your shop with the former and dumping the latter if you find one in your employ. Even a very few (as little as one!) of those can poison the atmosphere and cause all kinds of trouble with even the good employees.

Often these days (especially these days) I think employers are fatigued with trying to find people that are both good workers and that have a good attitude. Don't give up, the end result is worth it even if it takes a little more work that's difficult and tiresome.
 
Sorry to say but some people are unsalvageable.

Sounds like a typical slacker who thinks he can charm his way out of putting in a full days work.

Not uncommon for them to seem to toe the mark during the honeymoon period and then slack off when they think you are going steady now.

Possibly with discipline he may someday change his ways but only after being fired many times and there's a good chance not even then.
 








 
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