AutoCAD Inventor + CAM VS Solid Works + Mastercam

[number2099]

it had to end sometime,,,customers were getting too happy with something that actually worked

 

[number2099]

luckily we have we have offline dongle for that, if windows would stop with crazy updates ,,,we would be good forever

 

[mhajicek]

I wouldn't touch any Autodesk product with a ten foot pole. They WILL find a way to screw you.
Mastercam is far from perfect, but it will get the job done, no matter the job. Top Solid looks intriguing; it's a fully integrated CAD and CAM package with machine simulation.

 

[Marvel]

whats your take on camworks vs mastercam

A majority of CAMWorks and MasterCam's toolpaths are licensed from ModuleWorks. So for me it comes down to what I see on the screen, what I am comfortable with, it comes down to integration. I don't have a lot of experience with MasterCam but I didn't like it. I didn't like the workflow. Doesn't make it a bad software, just wasn't for me.

I've been using CAMWorks for almost 15 years, used a few others over the years, but always go back to CAMWorks. Like I said, its what I am comfortable with and have never had an issue creating toolpaths for any parts I have programmed, I have full 4th axis capabilities. I find it very user friendly and easy to control tool paths and get them to do exactly what I want. I do a lot of 3D surfacing.

The big misconception with CAMWorks is its "fully automated", it is to an extent, and you can get it to work for you, but it takes time to dial in the TechDB, which I have done, I actually didn't use the AFR or defaults within TechDB for the first 10 years but since they overhauled the TechDB, I have spent some time in it and have been able to configure a lot of toolpaths to work for me with minimal setting changes based on material selection and tool selection. Basic parts, I can have programmed without selecting a face or line segment on an entire part, pulls out all the correct tooling, feeds and speeds.

I occasionally get PO's with 40-60 different parts, quantities of 1-3, I can easily program on the fly, set up and run them through my machine myself in 3-4 days. These would be basic 3 axis parts, 2- 3 op vise work.

I trust my simulation, from screen to machine almost too much! My post has been perfected over the years, I pay my reseller to edit and maintain it as needed. I could say maybe 2 or 3 times over 15 years I've had something different happen in the machine than what I see on the screen, and it was always after a post edit request, and was fixed immediately, if I remember correctly all 2 or 3 times was a funky Z clearance from feed to rapid plane movement.

 

[number2099]

my dad ran camworks,,i think in 2008 ish before ,,he retired and passed it to me and my brothers,,,he never complained,,not sure how long before they used it,,

 

[scbean]

Interesting, thanks everyone! Anyone know what kind of price we are looking at for CAMWorks?

 

[scbean]

Also, it looks like CAMWorks will do wire EDM, anyone have experience using CAMWorks with it?

 

[OVodov]

Using Mastercam in daily basis and have SW on installed I would say it's bad idea to use 2 similar software.
One day you probably will start using Mastercam as CAD just because it's easier to do everything in one place.
It doesn't matter that MC is sucks as CAD.

I would go with CAMWorks or SolidCAM.

 

[Marvel]

Interesting, thanks everyone! Anyone know what kind of price we are looking at for CAMWorks?

Depends what package you are looking at. I don't know the pricing on the SolidWorksCAM options.

In 2018 I paid around $12k upfront for my CAMWorks Mill Pro Package and that included my SolidWorks Standard seat as well. I recently did a 3 year renewal with CAMWorks and it came to around $3150/year and that included the SolidWorks annual renewal for 3 years as well.

CAMWorks Mill Pro, includes the following modules:
3 Axis Milling w/Undercutting
4/5 Axis Indexing
Turning
Mill-turn
2.5 Axis
VoluMill
Sub-Spindle
Rotary Milling
Cimco Editor/DNC

I added on:
4 Axis Simultaneous Milling
3 Axis Volumill

_____________________________________________

As I said earlier, if you are planning on going with SolidWorks, I would recommend trying both CAMWorks and SolidCAM.

This is the pricing for SolidCAM 3 Axis Milling Standard and Pro, which does not include the SolidWorks seat and/or SolidWorks annual cost.
- SolidCAM 3 Axis Milling Standard - $5995 - Plus $900 but with Loyalty $855, following year $810 and the year after and forward $765
- SolidCAM 3 Axis Milling Pro - $14,995 - Plus $2250 but with Loyalty it would be $2137, following year $2025 and the year after that and going forward $1912

SolidCAM's Pro would be comparable to CAMWorks Mill Pro but SolidCAM's turning is not included and would add cost to the above whereas CAMWorks turning is included with the Mill Pro bundle.

Negotiate with the reseller for better pricing, and get them to include the needed posts.

 

[Marvel]

Interesting, thanks everyone! Anyone know what kind of price we are looking at for CAMWorks?

You can see the different options between CAMWorks and SolidWorks

SOLIDWORKS CAM & CAMWorks Matrix

Compare versions of SOLIDWORKS CAM and CAMWorks packages with a product matrix of features included in CAM Standard, CAM Professional and CAMWorks.

www.alignex.com

 

[Marvel]

Also, it looks like CAMWorks will do wire EDM, anyone have experience using CAMWorks with it?

I've never used it personally, but haven't heard anything great about it.

Teksoft developed ProCAM which was a well known Wire EDM software back in the day, which CAMWorks has integrated into "CAMWorks Wire EDM" but the integration from my understanding hasn't been that great and is clunky.
From my understanding this is actually where CAMWorks started, it was a Teksoft product released in 2001 fully integrated in SolidWorks. Teksoft was acquired by Geometric in 2005 and developed CAMWorks further, which HCL acquired Geometric in 2016. I've heard rumors that CAMWorks may become a SolidWorks product, that is why SolidWorks rebranded and released SolidWorksCAM. But that is just rumors I've heard.

 

[typoknig]

I've tested several CAM packages for use with SolidWorks files, but found that I really liked having CAM integrated in the SolidWorks interface. I used CamWorks for a couple of years, but calling it clunky is being kind. Its tool management is buggy and hard to use, its post processors are a mess, and the thing that is supposed to be its "killer feature" (i.e. feature recognition) is a complete joke. I switched to HSMWorks and it is a night and day difference. HSMWorks is made by Autodesk and is the same CAM engine used by Inventor and Fusion 360. Autodesk unfortunately treats the SolidWorks version of HSMWorks like a second class citizen, presumably because it is a plugin for their direct competitor, so features and bug fixes come to it late, but it is still a way better option than CamWorks IMO. One of the most important things that I want my CAM software to do is have lots of good simulation options, and the simulation options offered by HSMWorks are the best I've seen.

 

[scbean]

I've tested several CAM packages for use with SolidWorks files, but found that I really liked having CAM integrated in the SolidWorks interface. I used CamWorks for a couple of years, but calling it clunky is being kind. Its tool management is buggy and hard to use, its post processors are a mess, and the thing that is supposed to be its "killer feature" (i.e. feature recognition) is a complete joke. I switched to HSMWorks and it is a night and day difference. HSMWorks is made by Autodesk and is the same CAM engine used by Inventor and Fusion 360. Autodesk unfortunately treats the SolidWorks version of HSMWorks like a second class citizen, presumably because it is a plugin for their direct competitor, so features and bug fixes come to it late, but it is still a way better option than CamWorks IMO. One of the most important things that I want my CAM software to do is have lots of good simulation options, and the simulation options offered by HSMWorks are the best I've seen.

You seem to be one of the only people who like HSM, I would really like to go with HSM / Inventor since it is what we all know and is pretty inexpensive but it seems to be what everyone hates for some reason. Does HSM support turning with live tooling?

 

[number2099]

HSM is very powerful,,,we considered it,,,they are all very good,,but for us its what the shop guys like,,if they are unhappy or struggle,then our production OEE goes down

Powermill, Edgecam ,Surfcam, Peps ,,we either run them now or have run them in the past, ,,,all of them,,,,,we have a thing for mastercam and Gibbscam

 

[typoknig]

You seem to be one of the only people who like HSM, I would really like to go with HSM / Inventor since it is what we all know and is pretty inexpensive but it seems to be what everyone hates for some reason. Does HSM support turning with live tooling?

I've only used HSMWorks for mill programming, but a quick search did show that HSMWorks supports turning with live tooling. Here is a video:

The most frustrating thing about HSMWorks for me are as follows:

1.) It only gets lead-ins/lead-outs right automatically about 50% of the time. Seems to be worst with small holes and pockets, or anywhere you are trying to use the largest tool possible in a relatively tight area.
2.) Its "stock" and "model" selection could be more intuitive. Again, about 50% of the time it works as I think it should, but the rest of the time I'm having to apply tricks like selecting what I want to cut as "stock" and what I want to avoid as "model". I often find myself making supplemental sketches to define areas to be machined, which is annoying. I had similar problems in CamWorks though, but in CamWorks it was sketching up "no-go" zones. Either way, I usually end up with a bunch of extra sketches just to support the CAM operations.
3.) HSMWorks only takes the "Entry Position" parameter as a suggestion, and in my experience, the specified entry position is ignored every time. This is a big annoyance because if it worked right it would save me a lot of time, but it doesn't, so you have to work around it with more sketches.
4.) Lack of support from Autodesk. There is fear in the community that Autodesk is going to let HSMWorks for SolidWorks die. It honestly feels like it is on life support now. They just do the bare minimum to keep selling it, but don't seem to be investing any resources into fixing bugs or adding new features.

These problems are way easier for me to deal with than CamWorks TechDB and archaic post processor. Adding new tools to HSMWorks, duplicating tools, pulling tools from other libraries, etc., all of that is a breeze with HSMWorks. It isn't completely bug free, for instance, in certain conditions a changed setting will not get applied to a tool, and the only way I've found to get around that is to duplicate the tool, change the setting in the duplicated version, the delete the original. This is rare, but is still something I've run into. The post processors in HSMWorks are written in JavaScript, and are cleanly laid out. Much easier to navigate than the CamWorks "Universal Post Generator". I barely had to make any changes to the HSMWorks post processor for my Haas VF-2, and most of those were preference type things.

 

[SeymourDumore]

Don't take this the wrong way but :

The most frustrating thing about HSMWorks for me are as follows:

1.) It only gets lead-ins/lead-outs right automatically about 50% of the time.
2.) Its "stock" and "model" selection could be more intuitive. Again, about 50% of the time it works as I think it should,
3.) HSMWorks only takes the "Entry Position" parameter as a suggestion, and in my experience, the specified entry position is ignored every time.
4.) Lack of support from Autodesk.
5.) in certain conditions a changed setting will not get applied to a tool, and the only way I've found to get around that is to duplicate the tool, change the setting in the duplicated version, the delete the original.

You've listed exzactly 5 reasons why one should stay away from HSMWorks.

 

[scbean]

I've only used HSMWorks for mill programming, but a quick search did show that HSMWorks supports turning with live tooling. Here is a video:

The most frustrating thing about HSMWorks for me are as follows:

1.) It only gets lead-ins/lead-outs right automatically about 50% of the time. Seems to be worst with small holes and pockets, or anywhere you are trying to use the largest tool possible in a relatively tight area.
2.) Its "stock" and "model" selection could be more intuitive. Again, about 50% of the time it works as I think it should, but the rest of the time I'm having to apply tricks like selecting what I want to cut as "stock" and what I want to avoid as "model". I often find myself making supplemental sketches to define areas to be machined, which is annoying. I had similar problems in CamWorks though, but in CamWorks it was sketching up "no-go" zones. Either way, I usually end up with a bunch of extra sketches just to support the CAM operations.
3.) HSMWorks only takes the "Entry Position" parameter as a suggestion, and in my experience, the specified entry position is ignored every time. This is a big annoyance because if it worked right it would save me a lot of time, but it doesn't, so you have to work around it with more sketches.
4.) Lack of support from Autodesk. There is fear in the community that Autodesk is going to let HSMWorks for SolidWorks die. It honestly feels like it is on life support now. They just do the bare minimum to keep selling it, but don't seem to be investing any resources into fixing bugs or adding new features.

These problems are way easier for me to deal with than CamWorks TechDB and archaic post processor. Adding new tools to HSMWorks, duplicating tools, pulling tools from other libraries, etc., all of that is a breeze with HSMWorks. It isn't completely bug free, for instance, in certain conditions a changed setting will not get applied to a tool, and the only way I've found to get around that is to duplicate the tool, change the setting in the duplicated version, the delete the original. This is rare, but is still something I've run into. The post processors in HSMWorks are written in JavaScript, and are cleanly laid out. Much easier to navigate than the CamWorks "Universal Post Generator". I barely had to make any changes to the HSMWorks post processor for my Haas VF-2, and most of those were preference type things.

It sounds similar to the CAM problem in F360, which I guess makes since, thank you for all the input!

 

[scbean]

Don't take this the wrong way but :



You've listed exzactly 5 reasons why one should stay away from HSMWorks.

What is your favorite CAD / CAM software?

 

[SeymourDumore]

What is your favorite CAD / CAM software?

Mine is FeatureCAM, which unfortunately is a zombie application since the ADSK takeover some 5+ years ago.

 

[typoknig]

Don't take this the wrong way but :



You've listed exzactly 5 reasons why one should stay away from HSMWorks.

Haha, I have no dog in this fight, IDK what CAM software the OP picks. Just sharing my experiences and illustrating my biggest grips with my recommendation to help the OP make as informed of a decision as possible.