Automatic Cut-off Saws

[Pete Deal]

I think the next machine i get for the shop maybe ought to be an automatic saw. My volume isn't that great now but still this seems like an area where efficiency can be drastically improved. It's not an immanent purchase but thinking in the next year time frame.

I currently have a wellsaw manual saw. Not interested in a cold saw. Also, some might suggest that I just get precut stock. This is not a good option either for me. Looked at that already. What I'd like is something like an Amada HA250. I know Cosen has a good reputation too. And it will be a used purchase.

How do the Doall automatic saws compare to the Amada and Cosen saws? I see quite a few Doall saws around used relatively cheap.

It's been my experience that the cutoff saw is always the most neglected machine in the shop. So buying used much of what's out there reflects that. I'm not afraid of buying something that needs to be rehabilitated. I'm also not afraid of controls as long as there is some documentation.

There just isn't much out there comparing the design of various saws. Wes Robinson had a good video on youtube at one point going over the Kysor HA250 (I think the same as the Amada). This kind of sold me on the design. One feature of the HA250 that seemed really good was that it had a vise on each side of the blade so it held the cut part until after the cut was done. I really don't know much about any of the others.

 

[CatMan]

How big of material are you going to be cutting? Steel? Aluminum? Plastic?

What volumes are you expecting?

 

[kustomizer]

A shop I worked at had a saw with that extra vise you speak of and it would smash shavings into parts which is not always a problem but sometimes it is.

I have a 20 year old HEM saw, my second HEM and I really like the simplicity and the fact they don't have a computer. I have one called a sidewinder now which will cut angles.

 

[Pete Deal]

How big of material are you going to be cutting? Steel? Aluminum? Plastic?

What volumes are you expecting?

Volumes? Hopefully millions! Just depends on what comes my way. Really the manual saw keeps up with the volume I have now but it's not ideal having to tend it. And the saw is necessarily at the opposite end of the shop-50' away from the CNC machines so another reason for it to be more self sufficient. I think the space will not be significantly different between my current saw and the ones I see. I have a 10' roller conveyor on my current saw so it's not small.

Materials- Steel, Aluminum, Plastic, Stainless. Whatever someone contracts me to use. Sometimes structural shapes up to 6-8"

Kustomizer- good point on the chip squashing. That's not too appealing.

 

[boslab]

I was told there was a US firm in Houston Texas called Trajan, US made is a plus, big one to me.
Mark

 

[memphisjed]

I like the double vice if you can turn one off after clamping. Not releasing it, just shut the valve off. If you can not shut one off chip binding and blade squish on retract are issues.
Hems are simple in a good way- every auto saw I have seen is a compromised manual saw (amada, pedinghaus, hydmech and coosen). A hem or hydmech v18 with integrated tigerstop gives best of both imo.

 

[FredC]

Volumes? Hopefully millions! Just depends on what comes my way. Really the manual saw keeps up with the volume I have now but it's not ideal having to tend it. And the saw is necessarily at the opposite end of the shop-50' away from the CNC machines so another reason for it to be more self sufficient. I think the space will not be significantly different between my current saw and the ones I see. I have a 10' roller conveyor on my current saw so it's not small.

Materials- Steel, Aluminum, Plastic, Stainless. Whatever someone contracts me to use. Sometimes structural shapes up to 6-8"

Kustomizer- good point on the chip squashing. That's not too appealing.

Is any large portion of that round or hex bar stock and below 60mm diameter? If so I would also look at single spindle screw machines. Parting off with chamfers on each end is easy and roughing to near net shape is not much harder. Machines like a Traub A or B 60s are cheap. I used to use our A42 for roughing to near net shape parts, I could rough and part off aluminum blanks in 15 secs and this was removing 3/4 of the material on an 1 1/2 long blank.

 

[Pete Deal]

Is any large portion of that round or hex bar stock and below 60mm diameter? If so I would also look at single spindle screw machines. Parting off with chamfers on each end is easy and roughing to near net shape is not much harder. Machines like a Traub A or B 60s are cheap. I used to use our A42 for roughing to near net shape parts, I could rough and part off aluminum blanks in 15 secs and this was removing 3/4 of the material on an 1 1/2 long blank.

No. Most of this type work, relatively low volume, I just bar feed in my lathe.

 

[FredC]

No. Most of this type work, relatively low volume, I just bar feed in my lathe.

You got me with hopefully millions. :-)

 

[Pete Deal]

An update to an old thread. I think this week I will order a used Amada HA250. I've been looking at used saws. The up side to the HA250 to me is that it appears to have been in constant production since the 70's with very little change. Good parts support, looks like it's very well built. I found a dealer in Chicago area that has a nice looking one ($7500) and I gave him a verbal "I'll take it". I think I am paying a little more for one that's doesn't look beat to death and hasn't had a rustoleum rebuild. I considered buying a beater at an auction. I'm not afraid of that but really don't need a project. This dealer seems to have a good handle on shipping equipment. I'm not too confident in getting an auction item shipped and don't want to take the time to go pick the machine up. There just isn't much of this type equipment for sale less than 5-6 hour drive from here.

One question, I do use my current cutoff saw for single cuts pretty often. Do these automatic saws do pretty well for that too?