Automotive machining question…

[DDoug]

So, when did Practical Machinist become Critical Machinist? I missed that post, I guess… never said it was either a perfect solution OR a permanent one - just tryna hold things together until we can tear into it properly. Which means warm enough to put the truck up on jack stands in driveway.

You appear to be driving it down that rabbit hole.

 

[BT Fabrication]

Interestingly, that’s the ultimate plan… it’s winter in New England, we hafta work in the driveway, and I’m just tryna get the Ranger thru to warm weather… the rubber fuel line has been holding well with just a few exceptions, and I don’t want grandson out tryna tighten clamps at night on a side road so I thought a flare fitting might just be the ticket til spring.
I used a borrowed pro-level bubble flare tool for the brake line - which I could get out of the truck easily - but the fuel line is a different story.

Might end up saving my pennies and buying the same tool I borrowed - would be a really nice addition to the shop - but for now might go compression and risk the vibration issue.

Thanks for being more helpful than critical - I appreciate that!!

if you use the brake line flaring tool, you might be able to put a small flare on the end of the existing line, then slide a high pressure fuel hose over it with high pressure fuel injection clamps. that way the flare slightly holds it from coming apart, its a bandaid solution ive used on a trail to get things home or into a shop.
sucks having to fix it, but thats why mechanics have shops indoors, might need to pay a guy this time around.

 

[cg285]

as a repair i'm not catching on to why it is so difficult. however if not comfortable fixing it try these people. they make in quantity a couple fuel lines i sell
classictube.com

 

[MwTech Inc]

In theory it's not a difficult repair......replace the line/have one made with factory ends and install it.
Yea its a huge pain in the butt to do it, worse when cold. I totally understand the OP's situation, been there.
But using rubber hose with clamps to contain the pressure in that line is just not correct.
Look, the grandson could be driving down the road, wintertime right now up there, slide off the road and hit something. Hey as kids
a lot of us have done that.........He hits the front corner, maybe it will, maybe it wont compromise the fuel line, but we have the chance to be spraying raw gas
into a hot engine compartment possibly with grandson inside the cab. Or somebody hits him........

That truck will put out about 1.0+/- oz per second. And we are going to assume the fuel pump kill switch works, if not we are going to feed that fire .
How many oz of gas does it take to start a fire.... less than 1 oz will flash right now

It's just not worth taking a chance with a human life knowing your are purposely making the "temporary" repair
Be the same as using copper lines on your brake system.
I ran fire/rescue, I guarantee burning to death is not the way to go.

OK i'm really done now.........

 

[Strostkovy]

U Union|Stainless Steel Compression Fittings | StainlessSteelFittings.com

Buy fittings online such as Tube Compression Unions as well as other stainless compression tube fittings provided by Stainless Steel Fittings.

www.stainlesssteelfittings.com

 

[cosmopedro]

In theory it's not a difficult repair......replace the line/have one made with factory ends and install it.
Yea its a huge pain in the butt to do it, worse when cold. I totally understand the OP's situation, been there.
But using rubber hose with clamps to contain the pressure in that line is just not correct.
Look, the grandson could be driving down the road, wintertime right now up there, slide off the road and hit something. Hey as kids
a lot of us have done that.........He hits the front corner, maybe it will, maybe it wont compromise the fuel line, but we have the chance to be spraying raw gas
into a hot engine compartment possibly with grandson inside the cab. Or somebody hits him........

That truck will put out about 1.0+/- oz per second. And we are going to assume the fuel pump kill switch works, if not we are going to feed that fire .
How many oz of gas does it take to start a fire.... less than 1 oz will flash right now

It's just not worth taking a chance with a human life knowing your are purposely making the "temporary" repair
Be the same as using copper lines on your brake system.
I ran fire/rescue, I guarantee burning to death is not the way to go.

OK i'm really done now.........

I get all that - and appreciate that you said it without insulting me. Thanks!

 

[farmersamm]

My 90's model Fords put out about 30psi IIRC. It's quite a bit of pressure to deal with, considering it's a flammable liquid. Even the return lines pose a problem.......not pressure, but fairly high volume.

I'd opt for a new line IMHO.

My trucks have an inertia switch to kill the pump, but I don't think there's any provision for shutting it off when a pressure drop is detected. The only way to kill the pump is to turn off the key........but I believe the in-tank pump has a backflow preventer that holds some residual pressure after it's shut off. The only way to work on the fuel system is to trip the inertia switch, and either run the motor till it quits, or by connecting a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail, and bleeding it that way. So..........any leak would continue under pressure for at least a limited time. Not a very safe proposition.

 

[Cole2534]

U Union|Stainless Steel Compression Fittings | StainlessSteelFittings.com

Buy fittings online such as Tube Compression Unions as well as other stainless compression tube fittings provided by Stainless Steel Fittings.

www.stainlesssteelfittings.com

One time I was working a project on some process piping and needed a stainless 2" NPT union so I sent the warehouse guy to order one. A few days goes buy and he drops a 2" Swagelok tube union, like you've pictured above, in my lap. I dunno how much that cost, but it sure as hell wasn't cheap.

 

[Superbowl]

Superbowl
Been welding for 30 years.......proficient in MIG, TIg, Stick. so know all about that....

It's the liability of the whole process.
I don't care if he uses bubble gum, its his truck. but rigging a pressurized fuel systems is just asking for issues.
We have no idea his qualifications.....
Besides how is he going to weld it with gas in the lines????
Please explain that process....
Argue with that.......

MwTech Inc.--Why don't you actually read my posts before commenting??? Especially the sentence that says flush the line with water before welding.

 

[john.k]

Funny story about a fuel line .......was doing some work .chassis extension, on a big gasoline powered ex military truck.........anyhoo ,cut a steel fuel line with the oxy....there was a whistling sound ,got louder and louder for around 10 seconds or more ,then "boom" the fuel tank exploded.....blew out the filler extension and strainer to who knows where ,and turned the welded steel tank from a cube into a sphere.

 

[DDoug]

Funny story about a fuel line .......was doing some work .chassis extension, on a big gasoline powered ex military truck.........anyhoo ,cut a steel fuel line with the oxy....there was a whistling sound ,got louder and louder for around 10 seconds or more ,then "boom" the fuel tank exploded.....blew out the filler extension and strainer to who knows where ,and turned the welded steel tank from a cube into a sphere.

Reading your other "Adventures"...I'm surprised you've made it this far...

 

[john.k]

I wasnt near the tank when it went up.... the tank was well bulged ,not burst .......but it did blow off the big army cap and the filler extension and screen.

 

[MwTech Inc]

MwTech Inc.--Why don't you actually read my posts before commenting??? Especially the sentence that says flush the line with water before welding.

I did..
So now you are telling the Op to take the line loose, start flushing with water, remember he already mentioned its cold outside, he's on the ground, hence the reason to use rubber tubing, stick his head up under a wheel well, or better yet Grandpa can rest his knees on the rad support and lean on in, take his trusty welder (does he even own one?) and with just a few blips of the gun it's magically all fixed?
He knows the welder so good he can have it perfectly setup just right to weld paper thin tubing. And the nick is in the perfect place with nothing in the way.
Of course he will have to check the weld by putting it all back together and starting the truck, Nuts, we have a leak, no problem.... let's just do it all over again.
Really????
.

 

[Superbowl]

I did..
So now you are telling the Op to take the line loose, start flushing with water, remember he already mentioned its cold outside, he's on the ground, hence the reason to use rubber tubing, stick his head up under a wheel well, or better yet Grandpa can rest his knees on the rad support and lean on in, take his trusty welder (does he even own one?) and with just a few blips of the gun it's magically all fixed?
He knows the welder so good he can have it perfectly setup just right to weld paper thin tubing. And the nick is in the perfect place with nothing in the way.
Of course he will have to check the weld by putting it all back together and starting the truck, Nuts, we have a leak, no problem.... let's just do it all over again.
Really????
.

Yes genius, by reading carefully, you finally comprehended my post. Flush with water then tack weld the nick. That is what I would do. I actually fix stuff. Your advice was to buy or pay someone to make a new one. Helpful, I am sure he never thought of that.

 

[cosmopedro]

OK, so due to some of the commentary in this thread I’ve decided against using the 5/16” brass flare union I sourced… cut thru the line, slipped hose over it and used fuel injection clamps and it appears to be holding until we can work a better solution in the spring. Working on sourcing either Swagelok or Dorman high-pressure compression union as a backup just in case, and will likely pull and replace in warm weather.
Thanks for all the advice!
@DDoug - remember it’s called Practical Machinist, not Perfect Machinist, but totally understand your stance as I’m the same way most of the time. Fix it right or get someone else who can. Money’s tight, grandson’s still in school so no job, dad’s around but not as helpful in these situations as I’d like. If I wasn’t working two jobs I’d prolly take the time to do it now, but that’ll ease up in spring too - which is partly why we’re waiting.
Y’all have been helpful and entertaining and I appreciate the input - especially when not critical!
FWIW: I do have a small MIG unit but nowhere NEAR the experience to nail it first try - and based on the condition of brake lines (which we’re also replacing in spring) I’d say it would be a disaster… Also tryna make this an educational moment for grandson, so have been explaining pros/cons of options and having him do a lot of the work.
It’s his first vehicle - paid cash for it at 15! - so there’s sentimental value there too.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[MwTech Inc]

FWIW: I do have a small MIG unit but nowhere NEAR the experience to nail it first try - and based on the condition of brake lines (which we’re also replacing in spring) I’d say it would be a disaster…

Well, i guess SuperBowl you better step back and punt on this one..............

 

[DDoug]

Well, i guess SuperBowl you better step back and punt on this one..............

As well as the OP....

 

[amaranth]

You can also look for AN style flare fittings; they're used for fuel and brake lines. You need a 37 degree flaring tool for those. You can find them online at racing supply houses (and even amazon). Don't try to use them without the correct flaring tool.

If you end up replacing the entire line, I've had good luck with linestogo.com. If you see rust or serious corrosion on the line, it might be worth replacing.

 

[Scottl]

We’re not ALL experts and pros here, and we don’t ALL have all the tools we need… some of us are looking for advice - ADVICE, not criticism - from someone who’s been there/done that… I’m sorry you have the attitude you have but I’m damn sure not the reason for it. I admit to being a fabricobbler - whether you want to admit it or not you weren’t born an expert either!
I come from farm stock so sometimes the best fix is the cobbled together mess that’s gonna get the tractor back to the barn so you’re not working need-deep in mud.

Have a pleasant life, DDoug.

This isn't the same as a quick fix to get the tractor back to the barn where it can be fixed properly. In this case that would be a split section of fuel injection hose fastened with at least 3 hose clamps, one directly over the nick.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you are looking for a permanent fix and that would best be one of those bite type compression fittings. Use the split hose TEMPORARILY but make sure your grandson understands that this would be only short term until the fittings arrive.

https://www.parker.com/parkerimages/euro_bpd/NewwebFY03/English/catalog0093/0093UK/I-UK.pdf

 

[cosmopedro]

This isn't the same as a quick fix to get the tractor back to the barn where it can be fixed properly. In this case that would be a split section of fuel injection hose fastened with at least 3 hose clamps, one directly over the nick.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you are looking for a permanent fix and that would best be one of those bite type compression fittings. Use the split hose TEMPORARILY but make sure your grandson understands that this would be only short term until the fittings arrive.

https://www.parker.com/parkerimages/euro_bpd/NewwebFY03/English/catalog0093/0093UK/I-UK.pdf

I chose to cut the line completely so I could slip a section of rubber fuel line onto the tube.