Baileigh Cold Saw Questions

[projectnut]

I purchased a used Baileigh CS-350-EU cold saw earlier this year. It's now cleaned, repaired and working in the shop. While it hasn't gotten a ton of use it seems to be quicker and more accurate than either the horizontal bandsaw or the power hacksaw. The only "downsides" I see so far are noise and swarf accumulation.

Unlike the other style saws there isn't a convenient place for the swarf to accumulate and be easily removed. It piles up on the vise and table, and eventually needs to be removed by hand. At this point I've dedicated a shop vac to the saw to avoid brushing and spreading it all over the place. After a few cuts I just vacuum off the vise and table. It slows down the process a bit but keeps the swarf and coolant from being tracked all over the shop.

As for noise it seems this style saw is in general louder than the other styles mentioned, and closer to an abrasive cutoff saw. So far, I haven’t had problems with chatter or blade tracking. The machine cuts relatively true with cut stock between .0005” and .001” thicker at the bottom of the cut than at the top. The blade tracking can be adjusted using an eccentric on the head pivot. However, at this point I would have a hard time believing I could get it any more accurate.

Since this is the first and only true cold saw I've owned and used it got me to thinking about other brands cold saws in general, and more specifically how they handle swarf. In general, I'm wondering where the saw I have would rank as far as quality of build, and ease of use. I'm thinking that when considering purchase price, it would rank somewhere near the lower end. The new in the box price is slightly less than $6,000.00 while some other brands of similar size have a list price in the $9,000.00 to $12,000.00 range. I’ve even run across a few that list in the $15,000.00+ range. To be fair I’m not sure how “list price” actually relates to the final sale price. Are the more expensive saws sold at or near their list, or are they “discounted” to make the customer feel like they’ve gotten a good deal?

I’m hoping those with more experience with this style saw can give some insights as to any possible significant differences between the Baileigh saws and other more expensive brands.

 

[gustafson]

Looks to be a slow speed cold saw, is the saw itself making noise or the blade/material?
My slow speed manual cold saw is quiet as a mouse.
Now my high speed [3500 rpm] in finned extrusion is I like to say, louder than The Who

 

[MwTech Inc]

I have a KMT 350 saw , just an older version of their new 370.
The base does collect the swarf well.
Noise, you are milling really, not sawing. Speed makes a big difference in noise as teeth per inch do also.
You need to match the no# of teeth to your wall thickness and the stye in which the blade is sharpened,.......... there isn't a "one blade to cut everything"
Call someone like coldsawbladestore. (I use their blades, std disclaimer)
When everything is right the blade will just glide thru the material with minimal noise.

 

[projectnut]

At this point I have a 350mm blade with 110 teeth ground for cutting 1 1/4" to 2 1/2" solid aluminum rounds. I also have a 315mm blade with 100 teeth ground for cutting 2" solid mild streel rounds. Both are from the Cold Saw Blade Store ground specifically with the number of teeth, and a tooth profile for these sizes. Both blades cut well and accurately. The motor and gear box are almost silent. The noise I'm referring to is the blade on the metal. It's not chattering or making what I would consider unusual sounds, it's just louder than either the bandsaw or power hacksaw.

The machine has a 3 hp inverter driven motor with infinitely variable blade speeds from 24 rpm to 120 rpm.

 

[dkmc]

My only thought is, with additional guarding, and maximum coolant flow, (like with a bigger coolant pump or additional outlets/hoses strategically located) perhaps the chips could wash down into the coolant return area more effectively? Picking up coolant soaked chips with the shopvac isn't the best solution, but more efficient than brushing. Is this a hand fed machine or semi-auto?

 

[DDoug]

My only thought is, with additional guarding, and maximum coolant flow, (like with a bigger coolant pump or additional outlets/hoses strategically located) perhaps the chips could wash down into the coolant return area more effectively? Picking up coolant soaked chips with the shopvac isn't the best solution, but more efficient than brushing. Is this a hand fed machine or semi-auto?

and if you make a screened basket inside the coolant tank, you can probably simply lift that out to clean the chips out quickly.

 

[dkmc]

and if you make a screened basket inside the coolant tank, you can probably simply lift that out to clean the chips out quickly.

Yep. My Thomas 300 has such a tray in the back made from perf. metal.

 

[projectnut]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. This is a manual machine with a small coolant reservoir and pump in the base. As it sets now there is a screen in the coolant trough to keep swarf in the trough and not allow it to reenter the tank. There is also a basket in the tank to capture any swarf that makes it through the screen and return hose. The pump has sufficient coolant flow to wash most of the swarf into the trough, but that's where it will stay until it's manually cleaned out. With the pump at full flow the coolant volume is sufficient to wash enough swarf into the screen to plug it. Then it only takes a few seconds for the coolant to overflow the trough and spread swarf all over the machine and floor.

By chance this morning I looked at some similar machines listed on eBay. I found a Baileigh CS-350SA which is a two speed semi-automatic version of the same machine. The thing that surprised me is the size of the coolant /swarf tank at the rear of the machine. It's probably 3 times the size of the one in my machine and is compartmented to capture the swarf before it reenters the coolant flow. The tank although a different profile is similar to the ones on my horizontal bandsaw and power hacksaw. I can see I'm going to need to fabricate a larger compartmented tank, and modify the coolant return system to accept washing the swarf from the table

Attached are a few pictures of the coolant tank on the 350 EU, the 350 SA, and the swarf left on the vise after only 2 cuts on a piece of 1 3/4" aluminum round stock. The coolant flow was turned down to approximately 1/3 of its capacity to keep it from overflowing the trough when the screen gets filled with swarf. The final picture is the coolant exit port in the table. This was taken as part of the reassembly process with the table filter screen and coolant return tube yet to be installed.

 

[Arc-On]

I ran a Baileigh at a shop I used to work at. We bought it brand new, and it while it did cut stuff, I was never happy with the machine's rigidity and build quality. It vibrated more than other makes, and the overall quality of the saw was less than stellar. It was also BY FAR the cheapest option, and purchasing said we could have that one or no saw at all, so we went with that one haha.

Once I went out on my own, I bought a used Startrite 350 and it was 3x the saw the Baileigh was. It cut quieter, smoother, and didn't vibrate nearly as bad. I have also seen Doringer, Kalamazoo and Scotchman saws cut very smooth and quiet with the right tooling.

I will say blade and tooth selection plays a BIG role on how the saw cuts. You need to have the "goldilocks" amount of teeth in the cut. Not too many, not too few or it WILL vibrate and make all kinds of noise. If you get that right plus the appropriate amount of feed pressure, cold saws cut very quiet and smooth. It's basically a giant horizontal milling cutter, so treat it more like that than a bandsaw.

Nothing will ever be as versatile as a bandsaw, but for repetitive, short length cuts in smallish diameter solids and tubing, a cold saw is the more accurate and quick if you're doing a medium quantity of parts. Automatic bandsaws are probably more useful in the long term for a machine shop.

For a fabricator, a cold saw is the bomb. Cutting miters on long tubes, slotting, making a bunch of repeat legs or frame sides they really shine. Especially for the money. A tilt frame bandsaw is better, but again, lots more money and floor space.

We have 4 saws, a 12" DoAll horizontal bandsaw, a 16" DoAll vertical contour saw, a Marvel Model 8 tilt frame saw and a Startrite 350 saw. The cold saw gets used the most for general cutoff work.

 

[Arc-On]

Chip and coolant evacuation suck on every manual cold saw I've ever seen. Just vacuum it out when it needs it, that's about all you can do in my experience. Depending on the table design the chips may or may not get into the vise and swivel, but that's hard to avoid. Doringer seems to have a pretty clever table and clamping mechanism to avoid swarf in the way.

The Baileigh has a non-self centering vise, so that is less prone to chips getting in weird spots as there aren't as many openings. But you sacrifice vise versatility and ease of jaw swapping, etc.