Balancing arbors

[Troup]

Just dipped a toe in the grinding machine 'snakepit' by purchasing, (seemingly, as a 'real bargain' - two words which do not always sit well together), a basket case Stanko universal grinder.

It's essentially a large T&C grinder, but is also able to be configured for surface, cylindrical and internal grinding.

I'll no doubt have lots of questions, but I did get the manual, which is pretty complete. It has comprehensive sectional drawings of the main assemblies, most of the standard equipment (virtually none of which I got) and most of the optional extras (none of which I got)

I've got a couple of small T&C grinders - one a Quorn, the other of unknown provenance) minus wheelheads, which I should be able to clamp to the bed, at least for small jobs.

The machine is a typical Russian beast, weighs 1.2 tonnes.
My defence is that it looked smaller in the photos !

My question: the wheel arbors have built-in balancing weights. The manual talks of using balancing arbors. Can anyone enlighten me (if this is possible, without further info) as to what these generally look like and how they are used?

If not, I can scan and post drawings of the wheelhead and wheel attachment details, and photos of the balance weight provisions.

TIA for any help

 

[Mark Rand]

A balancing arbour is an arbour with the same mountings (taper etc) as the grinder's arbour in the middle and parallel ends. The wheel is mounted on the arbour and the arbour is sat on the balancing rig. Said rig is either two completely level parallels, or two pairs of independent, reasonably large diameter wheels set so the arbour set overlapping, so the arbour ends sit between the wheels. A picture tells lots of words:-

The arbour would be made to fit the wheel hubs obviously

 

[Troup]

Mark

Thanks for that - makes perfect sense, and relatively easy to implement

 

[Damien W]

Troup could you post pictures of your Stanko, please?
You might have noticed that I have a Stanko universal cylindrical grinder. I have mentioned it in other posts.

My machine does not have surface grinding capacity. It weighs nearly 4 tonnes. Maximum workpiece capacity is 700mm long by 280mm diameter. It is nearly 3metres wide.

I have asked questions about wheel balancing. The device supporting the wheel in its flanged mounting with balancing weights is called a mandrel. You rotate the wheel on the balancing device so that the weights can offset any difference in wheel density which might affect the finish of the ground part.

Even though, by your description, your machine is much different to mine, a copy of your manual might be helpful to me.

 

[Troup]

Damien

There's a machine like mine, except with all the accessories, at Big Country Machine Tools in your own fair town. Google for
[FONT=New York,Times New Roman]Stanko Tool & Cutter Grinder 3B642[/FONT]
They want ten times what i paid for mine, but theirs probably goes !

I've got a slow scanner and a fast workload just now, happy to help ASAP if there's something specific

Can't take any decent photos right now as I have the machine swaddled in plastic wrap and tarps out in the freezing rain - I'm doing some building alterations and no room in the shop at present!

This photo from the listing is probably almost useless, but it's all I can offer for now, I'm afraid, but feel free to check out the one at Big Country. If a few accessories happen to end up following you home, you know who to call!

 

[Damien W]

Damien

There's a machine like mine, except with all the accessories, at Big Country Machine Tools in your own fair town. Google for
[FONT=New York,Times New Roman]Stanko Tool & Cutter Grinder 3B642[/FONT]
They want ten times what i paid for mine, but theirs probably goes !

I've got a slow scanner and a fast workload just now, happy to help ASAP if there's something specific

Can't take any decent photos right now as I have the machine swaddled in plastic wrap and tarps out in the freezing rain - I'm doing some building alterations and no room in the shop at present!

This photo from the listing is probably almost useless, but it's all I can offer for now, I'm afraid, but feel free to check out the one at Big Country. If a few accessories happen to end up following you home, you know who to call!

Salutations Troup.

I was going to say that that machine looks more like a tool and cutter grinder than a cylindrical grinder. Then lo and behold you declare that it be thus.

I might ask how you found Big Country? Through a Google search? Any special search parameters? How come I have firms in Britain saved to my favorites and yet not thought of Big Country?

I know this firm somewhat. The owner, Barry, told me that my Stanko, which I bought from one of his auctions was not really his but he was storing it (had been storing it for the owner for some time and due to leasing his shed needed to dispose of some machines including the Stanko). He didn't care how much it sold for and since I was the only bidder at $500 I was the lucky winner. The Stanko dealer in these parts is Redmond Gary and they wanted something like $450 for a manual for this machine which naturally I baulked at.

He had sold the Stanko to the previous owner who wanted it to do one job, for around $3k and declared that I had got a bargain.

I know what it's like chasing tooling and accessories for a tool and cutter grinder hence long-distance communication/bargaining with dudes in Britain.

A friend of mine has a Quorn and thinks it's not worth a pinch of Pelcan $hit. He recently bought an Accraturn t&c grinder and plans to sell the Quorn on to some other sucker.

 

[Troup]

<<I might ask how you found Big Country?>>

by doing:
<Google for
[FONT=New York,Times New Roman]Stanko Tool & Cutter Grinder 3B642>[/FONT]

<<I was going to say that that machine looks more like a tool and cutter grinder than a cylindrical grinder. Then lo and behold you declare that it be thus.>>

I guess I was a bit cryptic for you, in my first post, saying it was a <T&C grinder>?
(Obligatory kiwi / aussie dig !)

You certainly did get a bargain, you dingo dog !

 

[Mark Rand]

<<I might ask how you found Big Country?>>

by doing:
<Google for
[FONT=New York,Times New Roman]Stanko Tool & Cutter Grinder 3B642>[/FONT]

They do grinders as well as music??


Regards
Mark

 

[Damien W]

<<I might ask how you found Big Country
<<I was going to say that that machine looks more like a tool and cutter grinder than a cylindrical grinder. Then lo and behold you declare that it be thus.>>

I guess I was a bit cryptic for you, in my first post, saying it was a <T&C grinder>?
(Obligatory kiwi / aussie dig !)

Alas you did mislead initially by referring to a universal grinder and no mention of "Tool and Cutter".

I know that some tool and cutter grinders are called "universal" as indeed is my venerable Jones and Shipman but so is my Stanko Cylindrical grinder due to its functions and attributes.

Do chasten yourself and indulge in a modicum of self-flagellation to purify your spirit and improve your outlook on life.

Its hard to believe how outrageous the prices those machinery dealers expect when you stand shoulder to shoulder with them at the auctions where they buy most of their second-hand equipment.

 

[Damien W]

Attention Troup,
<<It's essentially a large T&C grinder, but is also able to be configured for surface, cylindrical and internal grinding.>>

I recently received a copy of the original operator's manual for my J & S tool and cutter grinder direct from Jones and Shipman of Leicester, England.

An interesting note on page 6 advised that :-

This machine is designed specifically for cutter grinding, the wheelhead spindle being mounted on pre-loaded ball-bearings and the table mounted on a roller chain cradle to give the sensitive table movement required for this purpose.

A motorised cutterhead can be supplied for cylindrical grinding, also an internal grinding attachment, but users should note carefully that even with these additional items IT IS NOT a precision cylindrical and internal grinder, and its scope in this respect is limited.

This machine is not suitable for precision surface grinding, although the extension spindle supplied with the standard equipment does enable flat surfaces to be ground within limitation.

Since Jones and Shipman make a range of grinding machines they are eminently qualified to warn of the limitations of their T & C grinders and no doubt this note would equally apply to other makers' products.

All that being said though does not mean that if a T & C is the only machine available that the operator is not tempted to try to achieve tasks beyond its designed capabilities.

 

[Troup]

Trans-Tasman banter

Damien

The first sentence of Stanko's manual for my machine states:

"The Universal Tool and Cutter Grinding Machine, Model 3B642, is designed for sharpening main kinds of cutting tools, employing, wherever necessary, special attachments, which enable cylindrical (external and internal) and surface grinding to be performed on the machine."

Since Stanko make a range of grinding machines they are presumably qualified to comment on the applicablity of this particular grinder to a range of tasks.

It may be that they lack your confidence in extending their comments to every other machine whose designation happens to fall under "T & C grinder"*


* I gather -- from the fact you're using it -- that you've got over your earlier huffiness around my use of "T&C grinder" in my initial post, which you claimed was misleading

 

[Damien W]

Damien

The first sentence of Stanko's manual for my machine states:

"The Universal Tool and Cutter Grinding Machine, Model 3B642, is designed for sharpening main kinds of cutting tools, employing, wherever necessary, special attachments, which enable cylindrical (external and internal) and surface grinding to be performed on the machine."

It may be that they lack your confidence in extending their comments to every other machine whose designation happens to fall under "T & C grinder"*

Accepting of course that you have focussed on the nub of the question, which is essentially a definition of the applications of a tool and cutter grinder, please note that your quote is qualifying aspects of the one primary purpose of this machine and that is to sharpen cutting tools. You have supported my argument, not refuted it.

Please read that sentence from your manual again until you realise that it says that you can use fixtures and devices and processes for sharpening cutters. That is the purpose of the machine.

What was misleading was the LACK of mentioning "Tool and Cutter" in your post. Have another look! You said universal grinder ONLY IN YOUR FIRST SENTENCE. You didn't say anything about "tool and cutter" until the following sentence. I made the mistake of assuming that you were referring to a universal cylindrical grinder.

 

[Troup]

Damien

Thank you for your warning about the limitations of Tool and Cutter grinders

I'm sure it was kindly meant.