Beginners Lathe

[donie]

Here is a reply to Bob, Since you choose to use me as an example, get it straight.
I can consistantly hold 80millionths on taper and diameter using my near perfect 1983 I/M Monarch 10 EE. I happen to make a living doing machine work.
You are not the only under achiever that uses the paltry South Bend that says this is impossible. That is why I make the money I do. One could purchase a South Bend for less than the cost of one power tube in my 10EE lathe.
Don

 

[bob]

Don: Never said it was impossible or that you couldn't do it question is why is it important. If I remember you make after market parts for Harleys, they weren't built to those tolerances why should the parts be?? In addition, I don't know many bikers that could pay enough for the parts to make building them a profitable enterprise. Maybe you have a different, dumber customer base.
As far as equipment goes I have a 10EE and a 10EC and a 55 Series, in addition to several other lathes. So what, doesn't make me a machinist, just a guy with a bunch of obsolete iron.
Bob

 

[BobR]

Okay...I'll have to throw in some words here
for EMCO lathes. The Compact 5 and 8 were small enough to fit on a workbench. The quality of my Compact 8(Austrian made...read that as QUALITY) is first rate.
Acccessories have been a little pricey...Do not want to sound biased, but, when it came to getting a lathe a few years back,....it just had to be U.S or European mfg....

 

[donie]

Bob, I do not make aftermarket parts. I do a variety of machine work.
As far as the Harleys go I build Engines for the suckers that will pay $100,000 for a custom motor cycle. However I put every bit of detail into these projects as the Nascar engine builder that is down the road from me.
This is not easy work, there is alot of responcibility as the just the parts can go over $10,000 in an engine.
If these projects dont work then I will be shortly out of buisnes.
The engines these days are putting out several times the horsepower out of the same size package that was designed in 1936.
In order to for these hopped up engines to run and survive increased precision is needed to cope with the increased power.
I have made many fixtures to aid in the building of these engines. If you would like to hold 1/1000 on a part, the fixture will have to be held to 1/10000.
These engines use roller bearings, these bearing outer rings are sized by lapping, I have gaging tools that will measure in the millionths. I assemble these bearings to the tolerance of an ABEC 7 spindle bearing. in the last 400 engines I have had no bearing failures. I am the only one in this industry that unconditionaly gauranty the crank shaft.
Never has a Harley part been chucked in my 1983EE, this machine is used for tool making only.
I it takes me over 50 hours to build one of these engines. I charge the same rate as I do for industrial work.
If the public wants to play then they have to pay.
Don

 

[Evan]

Don,

A man after my own taste. I often work to extremely close tolerances. I built an astronomical instrument that revised the world standard for astrophotography using a 50mm lens 2 years ago, by two orders of magnitude. The accepted standard for the 50mm lens regardless of film speed is to be able to image down to magnitude 11.5. I have proved that with a sufficiently accurate tracking mount it is possible to image down to magnitude 13.

The device I built is held to tolerances of one part in ten thousand in all relevant dimensions.

 

[j.carlson]

Evan:

My apologies ! I should have said:

Buy North American !

 

[dvideo]

If you are not careful, you will get JimmieK fired up about how precise you can "really get".... :>

--jerry

 

[Evan]

Bring it ON! I also won an award for my double arm drive from the Mt. Kobau Astronomical Society. Judged by 4 people, a professional machinist, a director of a major observatory, a professional photographer and one other. I love working in the tenths.

 

[rob_martinez03]

I've got a beginners question on the first use of my new lathe. I did some research and bought a sherline 17" metric lathe. I put a 12" long 1/2" wide round rod of 14L16 steel in the 4 jaw chuck but could only get the play down to .020" (20 ticks on my dial indicator). As my first test with the lathe I tried to start shaving off some metal shavings/curls but all I can get is metallic dust and lots of clatter. I tried to "slow the speed and increase the feed" to stop the clatter but not knowing how slow is slow and what a good feed is I didn't see/hear any difference. Where I cut is far from smooth - many ridges... Bottom Line -- Any suggestions for this literal first time lathe user?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Do a google search on "How to run a lathe", it is an old South Bend book, available online, that anyone new to lathes should read. As for your chuck, a 3 jaw chuck will always have runout and is not repeatable, .020 sounds pretty bad, did you use random round stock or precision shafting?

Read the book, then if you have questions come back and start a new thread.

 

[Homebrewblob]

I've got a beginners question on the first use of my new lathe. I did some research and bought a sherline 17" metric lathe. I put a 12" long 1/2" wide round rod of 14L16 steel in the 4 jaw chuck but could only get the play down to .020" (20 ticks on my dial indicator). As my first test with the lathe I tried to start shaving off some metal shavings/curls but all I can get is metallic dust and lots of clatter. I tried to "slow the speed and increase the feed" to stop the clatter but not knowing how slow is slow and what a good feed is I didn't see/hear any difference. Where I cut is far from smooth - many ridges... Bottom Line -- Any suggestions for this literal first time lathe user?

That’s not a lathe, that’s junk. Return that garbage as soon as possible. Not sure that spaghetti noodle would turn plastic. I would consider calling that horizontal router a “lathe” a scam.

 

[Homebrewblob]

Do a google search on "How to run a lathe", it is an old South Bend book, available online, that anyone new to lathes should read. As for your chuck, a 3 jaw chuck will always have runout and is not repeatable, .020 sounds pretty bad, did you use random round stock or precision shafting?

Read the book, then if you have questions come back and start a new thread.

His 17” lathe is actually a 3.5” swing lathe (or is that metric rules so 7”?)

And I think he said 4 jaw not 3 but I don’t think it matters at this point

 

[john.k]

Seems to be an attempt to turn an unsupported 12" long bar.......tailstock centre support may make a bit of a difference.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

His 17” lathe is actually a 3.5” swing lathe (or is that metric rules so 7”?)

And I think he said 4 jaw not 3 but I don’t think it matters at this point

I was thinking 17" swing, not C-C, but it makes more sense now. Just looked at mfr site, yep its a mini-lathe, no 4 jaw offered from mfr, so now I'm betting its a 4 jaw scroll.

 

[neanderthal mach]

Shereline does offer a 4 jaw independent but you have to dig a bit to find it so who knows it just might be a scroll chuck.

(Sigh) re-read your question from a total strangers viewpoint Rob. Are we mind readers? As others have mentioned, are you even using tail stock support, what type of cutting tool, carbide or high speed steel, and if it's HSS is it even correctly sharpened. What's your depth of cut. Are you using a follower rest, etc, etc. My lathes tail stock weighs more than that whole lathe and it's a light weight POS. But I'd still have chatter (not clatter) on a 1/2" x 12" shaft without using a follower rest and maybe even a fixed steady at mid point as well as step cutting and moving the fixed steady. Your length to diameter ratio virtually guarantees that's what will happen once the tool moves an inch or two from the tail stock center. Go find and buy a copy of that South Bend HTRAL book that's already been mentioned. Learn at least some of the basics before you hurt yourself.

 

[rob_martinez03]

All good advice -- thank you. I did use a steady rest, a tail stock with live center and a 4 jaw independent chuck but I think I was still asking too much of the Sherline. I do have some reading to do. I have Metal Lathe For Home Machinists by Hall that is supposed to have lots of beginner projects. I also have a very old copy of The Watchmaker's Lathe, its use and abuse by Goodrich (which was highly recommended since my goal is clock wheel making and repair on the lathe). I also have the "How to Run a Lathe: The Care and Operation of a Screw Cutting Lathe" on my list. I've been looking at a lot of videos but its that first cut that I didn't see any data on.... As terrible a question as it is, I must ask. Ive taken a picture of my tool holder with the HSS tool (pre-sharpned and supposedly ready for use per sherline). Can someone double check me and ensure I don't have it in backwards or upside down... I read/saw that a right handed tool cuts from right to left so the cutting edge is on the left but I still could have it 180 degrees out. I cut the rod down to 3 inches and still used my steady rest. Following advice from another page I faced both ends first. I got my first steel wool! Sad state when the cut a-ways are the only measure of success but one must start somewhere I figure.

 

[Homebrewblob]

You pic is fuzzy, it appear the tool is orientated correctly if your cutting from right to left. Unfortunately due to the Terrible quality offered by these China lathes we don’t offer support for them here. More often then not the issues are inside the structure/quality of the machine itself. You (and us) would be chasing a our tails. Your best bet would be to join a hobby machine forum and inquire there, you’ll get more feedback then you will here.

And FYI the machine your inquiring about IS BANNED on this site all together due to the aforementioned reasons and more. Good luck.

 

[Dalt1028]

I just purchased a Romi 13-5 lathe and I can’t for the life you me get it to run on 230v 3 phase. I change the witching in the Motor to low voltage. What am I missing?

 

[rogertoolmaker]

Little common sense needed here. The bed, even on a 9" SB is about 4" deep. Now if you bolt that to a piece of 1/2 or 3/4" aluminum what if anything is going to bend with changes in temperature? I'm just a simple farmer don't know much about coefficients of expansion etc but I would bet on the al. Secondly, most work is done within a couple of inches of the chuck so a little twist in the bed has almost no effect. In addition, I would be willing to bet a bundle that the induced twist would be minimal compared to what is already there. Thirdly, if you are working to the kind of tolerances you guys are talking about why would you want to use a lathe that was the bottom of the barrel when it was new and sure as hell hasn't improved with age. Fourth, a new guy was asking for an opinion on a possible lathe purchase, why start with the irrelevant bs before he has a chance to take a cut. Come on, the guy wants to make some big pieces small why intimidate him with questionable theory?

Bob

Bob, Your thinking like an engineer instead of by subjective. Great! Thanks!


Roger