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Brand new DNM 5700 drip feed

Alright guys, I knew we were going to start phasing in Data Servers as standard on certain models, the DNM's being one of them. The OP says he got his a couple of months ago. We started installing them standard around June of this year. So, to the OP, if you want to check if you really do have a data server, here is how to tell.

Place the machine in "EDIT" mode.
Press the "PROGRAM" key.
Press the "FOLDER" soft key under the display.
If you do not see the "DEVICE CHANGE" soft key, press the right arrow button until you do.
Press the "DEVICE CHANGE" button.
If you see a button labelled "DATA SERVER", then you have a DATA SERVER.

You can transfer programs to and from a USB or a Memory card easily using copy and paste. You can also transfer programs through the Ethernet port also.
The OP might have gotten a stock machine that was built prior to our starting to add these standard.

I hope this helps,
Paul
 
Yeah well then maby Fanuc should realize that allowing their customers dumbing down the system is comparable to shooting themself in the foot, so I would definitly say that fanuc is to blame. Hopefully they will go out of bussiness when the newer generations who are used to proper GUI's and functionality start to appear in the shops, but we'll see.

Fanuc will never go out of business. Their controls are not just used on regular CNC machines. They are used on a host of custom built machines too. When I was at the medical manufacturer, we used Fanuc on any number of custom, "home" built machines. Fanuc is used on so many different types of machines, you couldn't even fathom.
 
Yeah well then maby Fanuc should realize that allowing their customers dumbing down the system is comparable to shooting themself in the foot, so I would definitly say that fanuc is to blame. Hopefully they will go out of bussiness when the newer generations who are used to proper GUI's and functionality start to appear in the shops, but we'll see..

Indeed we will. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up the quickest. Fanuc are one of the few companies that are supplying control for use by other machine builders and when machine builders are competing on price, it would be hard for any supply company to mandate what features can and can't be used.

What options used in the build of a CNC machine is also controlled by the US Government. To purchase a five axis machine in Australia, an application has to be made to the Government here and I suspect that would only be a cooperation between Australia and the US.

A client of mine purchased a US built, 5 axis ready, 4 axis VMC, the purchase of which was handled by a friend of his in the US. A few months's down the track, the FBI came knocking on the door of the guy in the US wanting to know where the machine was.

When Cylindrical Interpolation was installed as an add on, before it could be installed, either I, or my client, had to sign a declaration that the company using the machine weren't involved in the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction.
 
When Cylindrical Interpolation was installed as an add on, before it could be installed, either I, or my client, had to sign a declaration that the company using the machine weren't involved in the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction.

Not the first time I've heard of this. It dates back to the old Toshiba/Kongsburg scandal in the 80s.
Also why many multi axis CNC's have GPS' on them. Move the machine and the MTB locks it out.
 
Not so. Fanuc have at least equal file transfer and sharing facility as any that you've mentioned. It's another case of Fanuc being Lampooned for the implementation of their systems by the MTB. If one specs there requirement properly, the MTB would be able to supply. In a lot of cases, MTBs dumb the systems down as a cost cutting strategy and Fanuc cops it in the neck from the unknowing.

If Fanuc doesn't want to have their reputation suffer, they could:

1- Implement standards for who they sell control kits to the way Heidenhain or Siemens do. Force MTBs to integrate up to a certain level of basic quality.

2- Stop making literally everything an optional extra. The Data Server likely includes about $10 worth of hardware. Bake it into every control that leaves the factory, stop letting MTBs cheap out.

They likely won't do any of this because Fanuc doesn't care. They sell plenty of controls. More importantly, this entire industry is infected with the reality that the people making the purchasing decisions are not the people who use these machines day-in/day-out. It is very rare that the people who are vocal about issues like this are ever the ones buying the machines.
 
.....1- Implement standards for who they sell control kits to the way Heidenhain or Siemens do. Force MTBs to integrate up to a certain level of basic quality......

Really should word that as a certain level of basic specification. The quality is there. The issue is lack of capability important to the job shop user in the base specification. The base spec suits a large number of users. In the world of high volume manufacturing, interaction with the control is minimal and often restricted. Many machines will run one program for years. Little need for the ability to store large programs in many cases.

.....2- Stop making literally everything an optional extra. The Data Server likely includes about $10 worth of hardware. Bake it into every control that leaves the factory, stop letting MTBs cheap out.......

While this ^ would be nice, I suspect that selling options is a substantial income stream that they wouldn't want to give up.

.....They likely won't do any of this because Fanuc doesn't care. They sell plenty of controls. More importantly, this entire industry is infected with the reality that the people making the purchasing decisions are not the people who use these machines day-in/day-out. It is very rare that the people who are vocal about issues like this are ever the ones buying the machines.

Yep, a nice reality check here^. The folks writing the checks place value on reliability and long-term repair and parts support. That's what keeps parts flowing through machines and checks coming in the mail, not cool GUIs.

Something that would be really positive would be to have the sellers of machines be more knowledgeable on what control options are available. Then apply that knowledge to creating a list of control options that would best suit the buyer's intended use and environment.

Some folks will argue that after 10 years one should dump the old and bring in new. There may be some cases where that makes good business sense, but the majority of quality machine tools have a 20+ year productive lifespan before technology improvements are substantial enough to render them obsolete.
 
2- Stop making literally everything an optional extra. The Data Server likely includes about $10 worth of hardware. Bake it into every control that leaves the factory, stop letting MTBs cheap out.
It's as I comprehend parts of Kevin's comments implies and that is, its a case of horses for courses. There are plenty of Vertical Machining Centres that are speced and purchased as three axes machines. I'm fairly confident the clients purchasing such machines would appreciate getting a credit for Cylindrical Interpolation that is about as useful as tits on a bull, when installed on a three axes machine.

For quite some years, part of my commitment to machine sales organizations I contracted my services to, was to consult with prospective clients and advise them on the machine specification that best suited their application current and projected.

Regards,

Bill
 
Indeed we will. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up the quickest. Fanuc are one of the few companies that are supplying control for use by other machine builders and when machine builders are competing on price, it would be hard for any supply company to mandate what features can and can't be used.

What options used in the build of a CNC machine is also controlled by the US Government. To purchase a five axis machine in Australia, an application has to be made to the Government here and I suspect that would only be a cooperation between Australia and the US.

A client of mine purchased a US built, 5 axis ready, 4 axis VMC, the purchase of which was handled by a friend of his in the US. A few months's down the track, the FBI came knocking on the door of the guy in the US wanting to know where the machine was.

When Cylindrical Interpolation was installed as an add on, before it could be installed, either I, or my client, had to sign a declaration that the company using the machine weren't involved in the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction.

From my understanding, the geolocking of CNC machines has to do with making nukes, so yea everybody has to follow those rules. There is a reason why a DMG mori is geolocked. But that has NOTHING to do with Fanuc sucking.

Fanuc sucking is a fanuc problem, not a US government problem.

I get that their options suite is probably a huge cash cow, but damn it is frustrating for end users, especially as Koenig says, a lot of end users aren't being consulted on machine options. There are rare cases where the purchaser is the end user, or the purchaser is directly involved in the process, but that would be an exception to the rule IMO
 
It's as I comprehend parts of Kevin's comments implies and that is, its a case of horses for courses. There are plenty of Vertical Machining Centres that are speced and purchased as three axes machines. I'm fairly confident the clients purchasing such machines would appreciate getting a credit for Cylindrical Interpolation that is about as useful as tits on a bull, when installed on a three axes machine.

For quite some years, part of my commitment to machine sales organizations I contracted my services to, was to consult with prospective clients and advise them on the machine specification that best suited their application current and projected.

Stop defending Fanuc. This is all bozo business decisions that drive end-users mad with complexity and frustration just so Fanuc can make a couple more bucks. Say whatever you want, it *all* comes down to Fanuc's decision to put their margins in front of customer experience.

Perhaps back in the day, that was OK because who else were you going to call for a machine control?

Today though, literally everyone else makes a better mill control, and none of that is because Fanuc lacks in quality or capability! It is because Fanuc is recalcitrant about fixing their base system's user interface, and they are greedy when it comes to margins at the expense of customer experience. As such, I won't do business with them, and I will almost always jump into influential threads on here and tell people the same.
 
Something that would be really positive would be to have the sellers of machines be more knowledgeable on what control options are available. Then apply that knowledge to creating a list of control options that would best suit the buyer's intended use and environment.

Honestly, part of why I am so vociferous in this thread (other than the fact that I am cranky and full of both the piss and the vinegar), is that this is happening on a brand new, USA Spec, Doosan.

I thought Doosan was above this kinda chintzy crap and you could trust them to do Fanuc right. Apparently not? Well, at least not if you bought a machine built before June of 2021?

These are the kinda little details you don't even know to think about or ask about pre-purchase, and then you get saddled with a $100k machine with this typical Fanuc nickle-and-dime bullshit. I'm appaled that Doosan would put someone in this position - on an infulential machinists forum, asking how to drip feed their 2021 built, $100k VMC?
 
but damn it is frustrating for end users, especially as Koenig says, a lot of end users aren't being consulted on machine options. There are rare cases where the purchaser is the end user, or the purchaser is directly involved in the process, but that would be an exception to the rule IMO

And that's Fanuc's fault is it? Fanuc aren't building or selling the machines.
 
Despite all this griping about Fanuc, it seems to work for them. Last time I checked they still held the greatest market share by a significant amount. Tells me that more folks are fine with them than the ones that are not.

Really kind of chuckle when I hear all the gripes. I don’t see where one has a huge amount of “interfacing” with the control when setting up and running a job. Gosh, press a few keys and load the program. Press a few others and set offsets. Turn down the rapids and press cycle start. Easy on anything built in the last 30+ years. When you get back to controls without a crt, then things were tougher.
 
Despite all this griping about Fanuc, it seems to work for them. Last time I checked they still held the greatest market share by a significant amount. Tells me that more folks are fine with them than the ones that are not.

Really kind of chuckle when I hear all the gripes. I don’t see where one has a huge amount of “interfacing” with the control when setting up and running a job. Gosh, press a few keys and load the program. Press a few others and set offsets. Turn down the rapids and press cycle start. Easy on anything built in the last 30+ years. When you get back to controls without a crt, then things were tougher.
Hello Kevin,
+1 to all that and even those ancient machines without a crt are still supported by Fanuc.

Regards,

Bill
 
I work for Doosan and I will say we have made HUGE strides in setting up our machines for the best results. Lack of memory? Lack of a data server? Lack of this, lack of that. Doosan is THE largest purchaser of Fanuc controls on this here globe. That being said, the factory does not build machines just for the US market. We build machines for the global market. And by doing that, we need to cater to all of the markets including the US, Europe, Asia, Australia, etc, etc, etc. And obviously, they need to be made to a certain price point or they get fully optioned and the price goes up. And what is fully optioned? Your idea of fully optioned might not be mine nor Hans in Germany, nor Mr. Li in China. We have to rein it in or it gets out of hand quick and people are complaining that there are too many options I don't need and I don't want to pay for things I don't need.
My one main complaint is memory, personally. 2 meg on an Oi-F, 4 meg max. 4 meg on a 31i and 8 meg max. We are starting to max them out but that is still not enough. A data server is the logical step up to alleviate this problem. Adds about a grand to the price if you spec it at purchase or even after. 1 Gig of memory up to a max of 4 Gig. But does anyone really need even a Gig? There are way too many variables to outfit all of our machines the same all across the world. The same could be said for any MTB that uses Fanuc.

Doosan machines come probe ready, meaning the receiver is installed at the factory and is ready to go.
Doosan machines now come standard with the MEM card edit option where you can run from a mem card as if it were regular memory. Full edit, search and save functions. Up to 4 Gig.
Doosan machines come with through spindle coolant standard. And internally wired for high pressure coolant.
In a lot of cases, Doosan machines come with chip conveyors, part catchers and part conveyors.

The list goes on. I think we do a pretty good job.

But Fanuc is a business just like any other business. Nobody gives away their product for free.

Honestly, my favorite control is a Heidenhain. But Fanuc takes the gold medal for support across their complete product line. But people say Fanuc is not easy to use. I disagree if you look at it from a production standpoint. Machines are meant to run and make parts, spindles turning. If they are not, you are losing on your investment.
One of my biggest complaints is the pretty graphics from any brand of control. For Pete's sake, who wants a link to the web on a CNC control? Next will be virus software on a control? Why? Because some dick wants to watch porn on night shift?

This back and forth complaining about one control or another does nobody any good. Please, show me the PERFECT control.

Paul
 
If Fanuc doesn't want to have their reputation suffer, they could:

1- Implement standards for who they sell control kits to the way Heidenhain or Siemens do. Force MTBs to integrate up to a certain level of basic quality.

2- Stop making literally everything an optional extra. The Data Server likely includes about $10 worth of hardware. Bake it into every control that leaves the factory, stop letting MTBs cheap out.

They likely won't do any of this because Fanuc doesn't care. They sell plenty of controls. More importantly, this entire industry is infected with the reality that the people making the purchasing decisions are not the people who use these machines day-in/day-out. It is very rare that the people who are vocal about issues like this are ever the ones buying the machines.

If I call Fanuc with an issue they will be there the next day with a good tech who gets the problem solved.

Fanuc advertises the shit out of this. I attended a lunch and learn a few years back and I cannot say how many times reliability, uptime, and service were stressed. Oh yeah, that and minimum 25 year hardware support with parts. And that's gold. My buddy has a 1998 Fanuc controller. Parts, including the monitor, are in stock and can ship the same day.

Fanuc doesn't give 2 shits about user interface. They don't sell their product based on user friendliness. They sell it on it reliability, uptime, parts availability, and service. I've heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

Want a controller with more memory and fancy looking overlays that's easy to use? Go buy a Haas NGC. Except, yeah, that's a dumpster fire. And what's worse ... even Haas themselves can't integrate their own control properly.

The only machine that does it better in my opinion is Brother. And that's because their entire package is so reliable. So why doesn't Brother sell their controller to other machine tool builders? Because that's hard. It's really hard to service, support, and provide a controller that can be integrated by end users and sold around the globe.

Don't like Fanuc? Don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. But don't wonder why you can't find a machine in stock without it.
 
Wow..... Didn't know this thread would go down a rabbit hole. I would prefer to keep it on topic as to what I started it for. Yes, Fanuc has it's issues. We bought a Doosan because of all of the options that they made standard at the same price as a Taiwanese made machine with less options. Let me make this clear, the machine has been great so far. I can make a list, but I feel Doosan can sell anyone on these machines. I got unlucky with the data server coming after my machine was built. At least Doosan has acknowledged the issue and provided a solution. Ellison has also been helpful with using the PCMCIA as memory. This just isn't the solution I am after as I am trying to avoid pulling cards in and out of the machine/laptop. Sure you could say shame on the dealer for not pushing the server on to me as an option. I think that argument is valid as it would have been cheaper to install at the factory. I do have a quote on getting a data server from my dealer, but I think I can solve my file management issue with dnc4u (fail fast fail cheap).
 
Wow..... Didn't know this thread would go down a rabbit hole. I would prefer to keep it on topic as to what I started it for. Yes, Fanuc has it's issues. We bought a Doosan because of all of the options that they made standard at the same price as a Taiwanese made machine with less options. Let me make this clear, the machine has been great so far. I can make a list, but I feel Doosan can sell anyone on these machines. I got unlucky with the data server coming after my machine was built. At least Doosan has acknowledged the issue and provided a solution. Ellison has also been helpful with using the PCMCIA as memory. This just isn't the solution I am after as I am trying to avoid pulling cards in and out of the machine/laptop. Sure you could say shame on the dealer for not pushing the server on to me as an option. I think that argument is valid as it would have been cheaper to install at the factory. I do have a quote on getting a data server from my dealer, but I think I can solve my file management issue with dnc4u (fail fast fail cheap).

Can you not run the part program straight off of the memory source like a USB stick or mem card?

That would be a good happy medium. I confess Im not the data server expert but this seems easy.
 
Can you not run the part program straight off of the memory source like a USB stick or mem card?

That would be a good happy medium. I confess Im not the data server expert but this seems easy.

Fanuc can run off the card easily, and that takes care of most of the issues.
LockNut is correct in that the data server option can really take care of most of the memory issues.
4 gig is more than enough unless you don't know how to program and tackle jobs correctly.

Really, Fanuc has enough programming features including cycles, macro B, work coordinates, sub programming, local coordinate programming, etc that it's really never been an issue for me, and I've done some fairly complex milling.
 
We have to rein it in or it gets out of hand quick and people are complaining that there are too many options I don't need and I don't want to pay for things I don't need.

Damn straight. The average shop doesn't need nor want to pay for all the stuff that's just going to sit there.
S.M.E. tells us that the majority of CNC milling is basic 2.5 and 3 axis work that you can hold in your hand.

My one main complaint is memory, personally. 2 meg on an Oi-F, 4 meg max. 4 meg on a 31i and 8 meg max. We are starting to max them out but that is still not enough. A data server is the logical step up to alleviate this problem. Adds about a grand to the price if you spec it at purchase or even after. 1 Gig of memory up to a max of 4 Gig. But does anyone really need even a Gig? There are way too many variables to outfit all of our machines the same all across the world. The same could be said for any MTB that uses Fanuc.

Exactly. A grand or so for the data server is a cheap upgrade. A lot easier than drip feeding thru cables or WIFI too.


Doosan machines come probe ready, meaning the receiver is installed at the factory and is ready to go.
Doosan machines now come standard with the MEM card edit option where you can run from a mem card as if it were regular memory. Full edit, search and save functions. Up to 4 Gig.
Doosan machines come with through spindle coolant standard. And internally wired for high pressure coolant.
In a lot of cases, Doosan machines come with chip conveyors, part catchers and part conveyors.

The list goes on. I think we do a pretty good job.

But Fanuc is a business just like any other business. Nobody gives away their product for free.

Spells it out pretty good.
Having worked there for years as Training Coordinator and Applications Engineer, and done dozens of showroom and IMTS demos, I can tell you the machines come from the factory pretty much as most folk would want them.
Honestly, my favorite control is a Heidenhain. But Fanuc takes the gold medal for support across their complete product line. But people say Fanuc is not easy to use. I disagree if you look at it from a production standpoint. Machines are meant to run and make parts, spindles turning. If they are not, you are losing on your investment.
One of my biggest complaints is the pretty graphics from any brand of control. For Pete's sake, who wants a link to the web on a CNC control? Next will be virus software on a control? Why? Because some dick wants to watch porn on night shift?

This back and forth complaining about one control or another does nobody any good. Please, show me the PERFECT control.

Paul

As most of you know, my favorite is Okuma, and while the OSP just ROCKS, and Okuma will support it until DoomsDay, IMO, Fanuc is pretty damn good for parts, service, and support for DECADES after the control was built.
In addition to the Okumas I have two other machines, a Mori Seiki and a P&W/Hamai with Fanuc System 11 CNC's. Nearing 40 years old Fanuc still has parts and service for them. Try getting parts or service for an IBM PC-XT...
Tulip even has memory boards that are WAY beyond what was normally offered, and I have one of those too.

It works...

I've seen CNCs with totally PC based hardware. Real cool for about a year til the OS is obsolete or the builder goes under and you can't get support or parts. Then all the glitzy graphics and utilities get a little tired.
 
Fanuc can run off the card easily, and that takes care of most of the issues.
LockNut is correct in that the data server option can really take care of most of the memory issues.
4 gig is more than enough unless you don't know how to program and tackle jobs correctly.

Really, Fanuc has enough programming features including cycles, macro B, work coordinates, sub programming, local coordinate programming, etc that it's really never been an issue for me, and I've done some fairly complex milling.

at least for me, its not that fanuc doesnt have options other controls do. its that other controls do the same things better and are easier to use on the day to day basis.
 








 
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