Brazilian Ford Factory

[GeneH']

[/B]Even more pathetic is the reason why the union was striking: The big bad owners had implemented newer, more automated equipment that made workers' jobs easier, and made more money for the steel mill. So the union thought they should be getting a bigger piece of the pie.

Hmmmm..... maybe that's the real reason that Ford built that plant in Brazil. No point in busting hump to get a nice going concern and then have the UAW stick their hands out for "parity" (is that the right word to use?).

Gene

 

[wilmar13]

Located in Northern Brazil.

I noticed they said this in the video intro just as they were showing the map illustrating that it is clearly in East Central Brazil. Yeah I am anal.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=camacari+brazil&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=-12.726084,-38.320312&spn=55.663911,114.257813&z=4&iwloc=addr

They do commonly refer to this region as the northeast... the only reason I could ever get from Brazilians for this is that there is nothing in the actual north.

 

[wilmar13]

Just what makes you assume the vendors would not be organized?

FWIW, they are most certainly organized in Brazil. Everyone is. It is actually the law.

They are not constrained by the rigid work classification and limitations as the UAW though so the unionization of the workforce is a moot point for the most part as it relates to flexibility and "lean" initiatives... this is my opinion formed through direct experience as a plant project engineer in Brazil.

 

[wilmar13]

I think you do not understand the driving forces behind lean manufacturing.

I'm not a PhD either, but for anyone that really wants to understand true driving forces behind lean... buy and read the book: Factory Physics by Hopp and Spearman. It should be mandatory reading for any operations manager and any shop owner could benefit from it. But only do so if you want to actually understand how the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

Caveat Emptor: In corporate america understanding the principles outlined in this book will be a major handicap because you will be seen as a barrier to implementing some mindless cookbook recipe based on some "Lean Guru's" rudimentary understanding of the Toyota Production System.

 

[Wren]

The bottom line is it's the management who view the employees as "human capital", a term that is as vile as any racial slur you can imagine.

I disagree with this pretty strongly. I believe that I pretty much rely on owners/managers to view me as an asset/liability. It gives me bargaining room for raises and perks. If I am good for the bottom line they should keep me and if I am bad for the bottom line, they should get rid of me. I treat them the same way and that has resulted in me changing jobs a few times in the last few years and I don't believe that I should have any right to be angry if I am let go (I would of course be disappointed and worried). No one owes me anything.

As for the racist thing, I think it's pretty offensive to compare that to discriminating against someone for their race. If I don't like the way I am being treated or managements attitude towards employees, I can leave. Obviously people cannot choose race.

Bottom line, management is the core of the problem.

The Marines believe that all problems at their root are a management/leadership problem and I think there is likely something to that.

I believe that I see that where I work. Some groups are a disaster with bad leadership while my group has had a string of great managers and is a real success. I am pretty sure that I would take a bullet for my boss (who is incidentally a former Marine Gunnery SGT).

Management has had no trouble taking credit for successes that may or may not have been a result of something they did. They are quick to pass the buck at other times. I personally believe that Mullaly(sp?) seems to be doing a pretty good job and likely deserves credit for what he has done so far.

 

[Dr Stan]

I disagree with this pretty strongly. I believe that I pretty much rely on owners/managers to view me as an asset/liability.

As for the racist thing, I think it's pretty offensive to compare that to discriminating against someone for their race. If I don't like the way I am being treated or managements attitude towards employees, I can leave. Obviously people cannot choose race.

We'll have to agree to disagree. My position is that I am not an inanimate object, like a drill press, forklift, etc. When some MBA mindset views me or anyone else as simply replaceable with another piece of "human capital" I find that viewpoint highly offensive. I also believe it is one of the many problems with the philosophy of the current crop of managers in American business and industry.

I believe the attitude is a form of classism, which to me is nothing but another form of discrimination.

 

[dan s]

Sounds like your the "classist" person, that or you have chip on your shoulder (Basing this on your MBA comment).

let me share with you what I consider common scene. Any one individual "is" replaceable if they can't meet the expectations of their position/salary, or they are degrading the performance of co-works for any number of reasons.

We'll have to agree to disagree. My position is that I am not an inanimate object, like a drill press, forklift, etc. When some MBA mindset views me or anyone else as simply replaceable with another piece of "human capital" I find that viewpoint highly offensive. I also believe it is one of the many problems with the philosophy of the current crop of managers in American business and industry.

I believe the attitude is a form of classism, which to me is nothing but another form of discrimination.

 

[GeneH']

We'll have to agree to disagree. My position is that I am not an inanimate object, like a drill press, forklift, etc. When some MBA mindset views me or anyone else as simply replaceable with another piece of "human capital" I find that viewpoint highly offensive. I also believe it is one of the many problems with the philosophy of the current crop of managers in American business and industry.

I believe the attitude is a form of classism, which to me is nothing but another form of discrimination.

Hold on... I have relatives in Academia, one at Georgetown and another at Penn State. No Professor answers to MBAs. No Professor is considered "human capital". If you're hashing out old resentments, fine, but you're no longer working for MBAs.

I do agree with Stan in the sense that the term "human capital" can be abused by people who manage by spreadsheet and "numbers". That being said, there is nothing wrong with considering your staff in terms of their skills and attitudes. Nothing harder on the head than an expert with a bad attitude who rouses the workers into angry rabble because they have issues.

I wonder how often though Stan has referred to supervisors and superiors as "Suits", "them", "rich boys" and other pejoratives? Discrimination can be a two way street.

Hey, Stan, I note that somebody else has jumped in to the "Forces of Lean", offering a book which can found here. Do you recommend this book, or do you have other sources?

Gene

 

[GeneH']

Sounds like your the "classist" person, that or you have chip on your shoulder (Basing this on your MBA comment).

let me share with you what I consider common scene. Any one individual "is" replaceable if they can't meet the expectations of their position/salary, or they are degrading the performance of co-works for any number of reasons.

Not any individual, Dan. You ever heard of "Tenure"?

Gene

 

[dan s]

I know and understand the concept (with regards to academia), and in concept it's not bad, Though having dealt with several tenured faculty while in college, I can say that I have seen a lot of cases abuse. The worst cases I can remember involved verbal degradation of a student who had different political beliefs than the professor. I have seen a number of professors more interested in stroking their own ego than teaching (what they are supposed to be doing).


With regards to the general workforce, I think it's garbage.

I have some personal experiences to go with this as well. In February I started a new job (web application developer), in September I was promoted to supervisor even though I had the lowest tenure on the team. The first "managerial" task I had to perform was have a closed door talk with a senior member of my team.

The guy is smart as hell and has been with the company for almost 2 decades (also highly paid). The problem was that he was a habitual slacker, and the rest of the team was constantly picking up his slack. After clearing it with senior management and HR, I made it clear to him that he is going to start pulling his weight, or he is going to be looking for a new job.


I think many of the problems we face in America today are related people distorted views on what they are "entitled to" or "deserve" etc. etc. etc.

Not any individual, Dan. You ever heard of "Tenure"?

 

[jdj]

Dr. Stan didn't say or imply that he or anyone else deserves a job regardless of his performance. Correct me if I am wrong Dr. Stan, but he was actually kind of saying the opposite. That management needs to value employees of value, rather than seeing every
employee as unimportant and interchangeable.

Jeff

 

[Dr Stan]

Dr. Stan didn't say or imply that he or anyone else deserves a job regardless of his performance. Correct me if I am wrong Dr. Stan, but he was actually kind of saying the opposite. That management needs to value employees of value, rather than seeing every
employee as unimportant and interchangeable.

Jeff

Jeff,

You are correct. Gene is simply establishing another example of why he is not worth the time of day.

Stan

 

[dan s]

Perhaps instead of being an ass, you should clarify your position, because it sure sounds like you think everyone in a management role is out to screw his employees, or at least doesn't care if he does.

Jeff,

You are correct. Gene is simply establishing another example of why he is not worth the time of day.

Stan

 

[dan s]

I think most companies do that.... from my personal experiences most of the people that complain that they are not valued are the ones of little or no value.

A company that I use to work for had a once a year company wide review. Every employee including management was rated against his peers. Usually 2-5% of the lowest rated employees got let go, sure enough the people that got let go where always outraged. The interesting thing was that none of the other employees seemed surprised.

Dr. Stan didn't say or imply that he or anyone else deserves a job regardless of his performance. Correct me if I am wrong Dr. Stan, but he was actually kind of saying the opposite. That management needs to value employees of value, rather than seeing every
employee as unimportant and interchangeable.

 

[Dr Stan]

Perhaps instead of being an ass, you should clarify your position, because it sure sounds like you think everyone in a management role is out to screw his employees, or at least doesn't care if he does.

Dan,

I see you are rated as "plastic" so you have not been around long enough to know about GeneH.

Rather than calling me an ass, you should not behave like one as Gene does on a regular basis.

Stan

 

[dan s]

I have been a member of this forum for over 2 years (I don't post much).

So i will say again, why don't you clarify your self? Based on your recent comments it appears like you believe most mangers are out to screw their employees. is this so or not?

Dan,

I see you are rated as "plastic" so you have not been around long enough to know about GeneH.

Rather than calling me an ass, you should not behave like one as Gene does on a regular basis.

Stan

 

[gmatov]

dan s,

I will chime in on that and say that, Yes, most managers ARE out to screw their employees.

Now, I have to clarify that. I was only in the work force for some 40 years. You puppies with 2 to 10 years might see it differently, 'specially college grads, the upper crust.

Although, rarely do I see movies made about how millhunks screw each other over. Seems to be college boys will climb over the carcass of their "best buddies" to get their jobs. They will even provide the knife in the back to make them their former barrier to the higher echelon.

Do you find that to be so or not?

DO you have any college education or not?

Are you a machinist or not?

Do you work for McDonald's or not?

As to the last, you may have the best chance of having a job next month than many here do.

Cheers,

George

 

[GeneH']

Jeff,

You are correct. Gene is simply establishing another example of why he is not worth the time of day.

Stan

I'm worth insulting though.... Calling me names doesn't explain the forces that drive lean manufacturing, Stan. Odd how you keep on forgoing the opportunity to elaborate to this group about what you think "drives" Lean Manufacturing.

Aren't you concerned even the least, Stan, about your credibility as an educator?

Gene

 

[GeneH']

Dr. Stan didn't say or imply that he or anyone else deserves a job regardless of his performance. Correct me if I am wrong Dr. Stan, but he was actually kind of saying the opposite. That management needs to value employees of value, rather than seeing every
employee as unimportant and interchangeable.

Jeff

I did not deny what Stan said, Jeff, though I think he's being overly dramatic. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the fad of Corporate Anorexia began. Too many managers realize today that you cannot lop off heads with impunity - you paid to train those folks and might need them again some day.

I did point out that Stan, being a "Professor", if he is one with tenure would be in a position where he is beyond the reach of management unless he crosses some very sharp lines. As such his outrage is sympathetic rather than based upon any pending threat to his own job. If Stan does not yet have tenure then he is at the mercy of a political process which is quite dissimilar to the ones that face the rest of us - being "more or less" units of labor.


Hey, Jeff... why aren't you asking Stan to explain the forces the drive Lean Manufacturing?

Gene

 

[dan s]

DO you have any college education or not?

Yes, I have a B.S. In computational physics (In short I learned how write software to solve complex math/physics problems. What a cad/cam package does) And before I hear any silver spoon crap, I have done factory work. During college I spent a summer making fiberglass basketball backboards, and spending 8 hrs a day next to a 450 degree multi-ton press for $6.25/hr convinced me that dropping out of college was a bad idea. I have had a job of one form or another since I was 11.

Are you a machinist or not?

No, I'm a software developer, Machining is a hobby for me.

Although, rarely do I see movies made about how millhunks screw each other over. Seems to be college boys will climb over the carcass of their "best buddies" to get their jobs. They will even provide the knife in the back to make them their former barrier to the higher echelon.

Do you find that to be so or not?

That's a little simplistic don't you think? Not everyone that goes to college is a silver spoon baby, and in it for the money. I'm sure some are but not everyone.

In software development it's pretty black and white. Either you have the skill to do the job or you don't, those that don't get replaced. It's kind of like being a machinist is it not? You can either make a part to tolerance or you can't, and the micrometer doesn't lie.

by they way, what town in Pa are you from? I was born in Lewisburg, but I lived in both Easton & Johnstown before my family moved west.