Breaking 1/2" Kennametal HARVI I TE ENDMILL while plunging

[D Nelson]

here you go like this
Don


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You ain’t out of tools until your out of tools. Good god
Don


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[tome9999]

If you know where I can get a vdi-30 radial holder for two (or more) static tools that sticks out 120mm like that one in the center/right of your picture do tell!
-Tom

 

[D Nelson]

I don’t know but that thing is bad ass for sure
Don


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[Ox]

Live toys are not 40 taper mills.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[empower]

Two reasons. I don’t have one :-) , and I only have so many tool positions and live toolholders. I was hoping to have an endmill do double duty…..
-Tom

you're drilling on center... why the hell do you need a live tool for that?

 

[tome9999]

you're drilling on center... why the hell do you need a live tool for that?

I answered that question at least twice in the thread.
-Tom

 

[empower]

I answered that question at least twice in the thread.
-Tom

you dont need a live tool holder for a drill. drilling with an endmill is a TERRIBLE idea. a home depot 1/2" HSS drill would do better in a dumb holder than what you're trying to do.

 

[Ox]

you dont need a live tool holder for a drill. drilling with an endmill is a TERRIBLE idea. a home depot 1/2" HSS drill would do better in a dumb holder than what you're trying to do.

Apparently he needs to have a live mill for another feature, and he is out of turret positions, so he is trying to use the mill to drill a hole.

The punchline really is that he needs to build (buy?) a 2 position holder for at least one turret position. But I am all about finding a work-around when possible, and in this case, he could prolly just slow the RPM down and slow the feed down even more, and maybe make it work.


999 - are you looking for a 1/2" hole when done?

If not - try moving off C/L and run the spindle slowly if your control will allow you to.
This may be referred to as a "deep drill" M-code.
Climb milling may not be optional for this app.

If not able to make that work, you can just C axis it, and in this case - you will want to "H" axis it. (INCR)
I don't think that you can run C nearly as far as you can H for an app like this.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[CarbideBob]

you dont need a live tool holder for a drill. drilling with an endmill is a TERRIBLE idea. a home depot 1/2" HSS drill would do better in a dumb holder than what you're trying to do.

Does the design of the tip the end mill matter as this one not normal?
Yes standard endmills do not drill well and have to peck like crazy. Do you know why?
The posted shallow depth pictures which the OP thought okay scream no, the tool will break.
Bob

 

[empower]

Does the design of the tip the end mill matter?
Yes standard endmills do not drill well and have to peck like crazy. Do you know why?

because most dont have the relief towards the center to get rid of the chips

 

[Orange Vise]

That is plan B. But the endmill is supposed to be able to do this. Perhaps the machine cannot, but I’d like to get it to work if possible….

The ability to plunge endmills has gotten better over the years, but it's still an inherently unstable process where the only failure mode is flute packing and instant breakage. No warnings through loud noises and load meter increases.

IME, even if the machine and tool are capable of both plunging and helical interpolation, the latter tends to yield significantly longer tool life, especially in a lathe.

 

[tome9999]

Apparently he needs to have a live mill for another feature, and he is out of turret positions, so he is trying to use the mill to drill a hole.

The punchline really is that he needs to build (buy?) a 2 position holder for at least one turret position.

Indeed. If I can find one I am all over it!

But I am all about finding a work-around when possible, and in this case, he could prolly just slow the RPM down and slow the feed down even more, and maybe make it work.

999 - are you looking for a 1/2" hole when done?

If not - try moving off C/L and run the spindle slowly if your control will allow you to.
This may be referred to as a "deep drill" M-code.
Climb milling may not be optional for this app.

If not able to make that work, you can just C axis it, and in this case - you will want to "H" axis it. (INCR)
I don't think that you can run C nearly as far as you can H for an app like this.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Yeah the hole can be bigger than 1/2” in this case, I can do a spiral path into the hole and am sure that will do the trick, thanks Ox.

By the way, everyone is all up in arms because I am drilling with an endmill, yeah ok, you aren’t the only one who knows drilling with an endmill is suppose to be verboten. Talk to the hand, tell that to Kennametal.
-Tom

 

[CarbideBob]

because most dont have the relief towards the center to get rid of the chips

Swing and a miss.
You are on the correct track that chip transport is the root.
The fail problem is not at the tool tip or end as seen in the pics.
Take a three or four flute square end drill and compare it to an end mill.
How about only two flutes? People make two flute square and even inverted end tip drills. They have a web diameter just like an endmill or even bigger. How can that work?
Bob

 

[Ox]

Indeed. If I can find one I am all over it!



Yeah the hole can be bigger than 1/2” in this case, I can do a spiral path into the hole and am sure that will do the trick, thanks Ox.

By the way, everyone is all up in arms because I am drilling with an endmill, yeah ok, you aren’t the only one who knows drilling with an endmill is suppose to be verboten. Talk to the hand, tell that to Kennametal.
-Tom

Got a block of 2 x 2 1018 in-house? (1.5 x 1.5?)

In an hour or 2 you can have one made.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[empower]

Indeed. If I can find one I am all over it!



Yeah the hole can be bigger than 1/2” in this case, I can do a spiral path into the hole and am sure that will do the trick, thanks Ox.

By the way, everyone is all up in arms because I am drilling with an endmill, yeah ok, you aren’t the only one who knows drilling with an endmill is suppose to be verboten. Talk to the hand, tell that to Kennametal.
-Tom

you realize kennametal is in the business of selling tools right? the more tools you go through, the more money they make. i wouldnt be taking their word as gospel.

 

[lionelt]

Would one of these work to get two tools in one turret position?

VDI30 FORM A1 BLANK L= 85 mm


https://www.toolholdershop.com/images/large/VDI Boring Bar Holder-430.jpg

 

[CarbideBob]

you realize kennametal is in the business of selling tools right? the more tools you go through, the more money they make. i wouldnt be taking their word as gospel.

Never trust a tooling supplier.
You have so much more knowledge than a small place like Kennametal, Sandvik, or Mitsubishi.
All those vendors big and small out there are trying to steal money from you and sell you more tools. That is how they make money.
Problem as a tooling supplier and designer is when you encounter such a customer belief. Then what to do?
Bob

 

[Ox]

If you know where I can get a vdi-30 radial holder for two (or more) static tools that sticks out 120mm like that one in the center/right of your picture do tell!
-Tom

I thought that you mentioned 30 somewhere....

PM91.3020L • Global CNC Industries

PM91.3020R • Global CNC Industries


If you are only looking for one or maybe two, then buying one is likely cost effective.
We made several like these in-house many yrs ago.



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tome9999]

I thought that you mentioned 30 somewhere....

PM91.3020L • Global CNC Industries

PM91.3020R • Global CNC Industries


If you are only looking for one or maybe two, then buying one is likely cost effective.
We made several like these in-house many yrs ago.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Cool, thanks, I will contact them! That left hand holder is close to what I need. My centerline is 120mm and I need to test what the min centerline dimension I can get to on the turret. I think it is 100mm but need to verify.

-Tom

 

[tome9999]

Would one of these work to get two tools in one turret position?

VDI30 FORM A1 BLANK L= 85 mm


https://www.toolholdershop.com/images/large/VDI Boring Bar Holder-430.jpg

Yes, I could make one out of something close to that. I would need a blank where the axial (with vdi shaft) length is 120mm…will look around.
-Tom