Brother Speedio Spindle choice?

[Houdini16]

I have never ran a Speedio or even seen one. We are looking at starting to replace our small Haas machines with Speedio's,
Anyone who has had multiple different spindles, can you suggest which spindle you would prefer?
I saw there was a 10k, 16k, 10k Hight Torque, and 27k. We only do Aluminum currently also. But do like to rough with a 1.5" Indexable Aluminum cutter.
Thanks.

 

[crossthread82]

For aluminum definitely 16k BBT or 27k. Though the 10kHT BBT is basically a 30hp 40taper packed into a 30 taper body, it's pretty impressive. So If purely running bigger tools balls to the wall I'd go 10kHT but if just some roughing and lots of finishing 16k or 27k.

Keep in mind you can't get TSC with the 27k spindle.

 

[couch]

I'd narrow your choices down to either the 16k or 10K HT.

For a shop only doing aluminum I'd suggest the 16k, but the 10k HT is a beast for a BT30 spindle and will be closer to a 40 taper. Way more torque and comes standard with Dual Contact, although you can get this on the 16k as well. 10k HT is going to be a better job shop/universal spindle and handle larger and longer tools better but I've seen some massive stainless parts done (6"+ thick) on a 16k that I previously wouldn't believe. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either one.

If I were personally buying a Speedio, I'd go 10k HT since I do a mix of materials and I don't care that much about the higher RPM.

 

[DavidScott]

I would say 16k bbt, that is what I have, but it really depends on exactly what parts you make. The feeds really drop when you need any accuracy, especially on contours, so that would limit what a 27k could add for me.

 

[gkoenig]

16k Big+, all day.

It is the heart of the lineup for a reason - the almost ideal blend of speed and flexibility across the widest range of applications. If the 27k had a TSC option, it would be a much harder choice, but that won't happen because: physics. The Speedio's monster acc/dec numbers come from using a small spindle head casing, and there is just not enough mass to deal with the thermal shock of turning TSC on/off randomly through the cycle without weird growth issues.

I do all kinds of weird stuff in my machine, so the flexibility is critical for my application. The 10k HT is fantastic if you run steel all day long, but you'll be hating life if a big aluminum job ever darkens the door to your shop. The standard 10k spindle basically doesn't exist outside of the 2 base model machines Yamazen stocks (S500 and R450 14 tool).

Also, be aware at the D-00 control machines are showing up, and they are all Big+ as standard. TSC has also been upgraded to 1000psi across the board.

 

[crossthread82]

Also, be aware at the D-00 control machines are showing up, and they are all Big+ as standard. TSC has also been upgraded to 1000psi across the board.

I also saw on Brother's Japanese site that they're offering the SxD1 machines as a 5ax version so you'd get DWO and TCPC if you decided to add a rotary or trunnion in the future. Not sure when those will hit the US market.

 

[Houdini16]

yeah It was 16kBig+ or 10kHTBig+, I just havent compared the torque to our other machines to see where these sit. And when comparing to a Haas spindle, I don't know if its possible because the specs aren't true.
We have a MiniMill-10k miniMill2-10k DM2-10k VF2SS-12k
10k is ok, but more would help a lot with 1/4 and under cutters. But it is nice to be able to run a larger 5/8-3/4 tap in something instead of milling threads.
The minimills cant tap above 1/2" So if I can get near the torque of the DM-2 out of the 16k Speedio, that would be sweet!

 

[crossthread82]

The 10kHT Big+ also has a way larger front bearing in the spindle and has more drawbar force so it'll handle longer stickout tools better than the other spindle options.

The 16k can handle a 3/4" cut tap in aluminum no problem. The 10kHT can do a 1-1/4" cut tap in steel.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

I really like the 27K machines but there is a lot to be said for the all around goodness of the 16k machines. If it is your first brother machine, the 16k will be great. Can handle larger drills and taps than 27K. Will run 16k all day long. If you are frequently running very small tools (< .125"), and don't need coolant through spindle, the 27k may be the right choice...

 

[Mtndew]

16k dual contact, and TSC is what we have and all we do is aluminum and copper with it.
It's perfect.

 

[Houdini16]

In truth I wanted the F600X1 but they said they don't import those.

 

[crossthread82]

In truth I wanted the F600X1 but they said they don't import those.

From what I've heard they didn't sell well in the US so there's only a handful of them here. I think if they would've offered them with the 40tool magazine from the R650 and had an option for the 16kbig+ spindle instead of just the 10kHT they would've sold way more of them.

Then again you could just get a R650...

 

[BugRobotics]

I don't have the cool 16k or 27k, just the plain jane 10k and I've been very pleased with it's performance in aluminum and stainless over the last year. Can't imagine what 16k Big+ with TSC would be like.

 

[newtonsapple]

The 10kHT Big+ also has a way larger front bearing in the spindle and has more drawbar force so it'll handle longer stickout tools better than the other spindle options.

The 16k can handle a 3/4" cut tap in aluminum no problem. The 10kHT can do a 1-1/4" cut tap in steel.

Is there a downside to the higher drawbar force? Why not run the higher drawbar force on a standard spindle? Without the dual contact, does it expand the taper?

 

[crossthread82]

Is there a downside to the higher drawbar force? Why not run the higher drawbar force on a standard spindle? Without the dual contact, does it expand the taper?

I think its so at high rpm it doesn't suck the tool in to spindle as bad. By more draw bar force I'm referring to the HT part not the Big+. For a full explanation I'd consult @BROTHERFRANK or @2outof3.

 

[TrollTuner]

I have been happy with my 16k b+ tsc S700 in 2014 added it and quickly outpaced the 07 Vf2 10K

 

[Comatose]

Ditto on the 16k. We run fairly small tools, but even running stainless I'm routinely up over 10k.

 

[gustafson]

10K ? 1987 wants its spindle speed back
16k is ok
if you don't really need tsc, and you might spend time drilling holes, 27k

 

[gkoenig]

I also saw on Brother's Japanese site that they're offering the SxD1 machines as a 5ax version so you'd get DWO and TCPC if you decided to add a rotary or trunnion in the future. Not sure when those will hit the US market.

Probably 6+ months.
Also, while the D-00 control is identical between the standard and 5 Axis version, they will need to be ordered as D00v from the factory - otherwise the MITI paperwork for export from Japan goes bonkers if all 12,000 machines Brother ships a year are full 5 capable.

The D00v comes with:
- Tool Center Point Control
- G68.2 feature coordinate setting
- SubMicron
- 3GB Memory
- 1000 Block Look Ahed (Mode BII)

 

[gkoenig]

In truth I wanted the F600X1 but they said they don't import those.

Only 3 F600s were imported to the US. I know 2 of them and the owners *love* them, but word is that it is basically gone from the lineup and we won't be seeing an Xd1 upgrade to it. You could always factory order one from Yamazen, but if the factory stops making them... not much to be done.