Brother Spindle Probe Costs

[BugRobotics]

I'm looking for some historical cost figures for installing a Blum/Renishaw spindle probe into a Brother.

 

[TAIWA NUMBA WAAN]

I'm looking for some historical cost figures for installing a Blum/Renishaw spindle probe into a Brother.

I bought a Renishaw OTS-AA tool setter and OMP-60 for Ct40 taper in 2018

OTS-AA Tool Setter - $2,100
OMP60 Spindle Probe + Hardware + CAT40 holder + 100mm Probe Shank - $3,750
CAT40 Calibration Master - $400

 

[Matt@RFR]

The Blum stuff is significantly more expensive than Renishaw, but worth it if speed matters. And Blums Znano tool setter is worlds better than anything from Renishaw in my opinion.

I bought a complete Blum TC-52 probe kit for spares late 2022 (complete with electronics, wiring, etc.), only thing missing is the actual tool setter. $7,652.34.

The initial cost of this system, complete with two tool setters for a twin pallet machine, was $10,860 from Yamazen.

 

[LOTT]

I'd think in the $6-7k range for an S series, but labor is a decent chunk so you you'll need to talk to Yamazen for anything approaching real numbers.

On the bright side they (Yamazen) seem to be busy enough to not hound you after an RFQ. Don't make that mistake with Hurco....

 

[BugRobotics]

Thanks for the pricing. Looks like current pricing is still in line with this for the Blum as I just got a quote back for around 7.5k for a TC-52.

 

[gkoenig]

The Blum stuff is significantly more expensive than Renishaw, but worth it if speed matters. And Blums Znano tool setter is worlds better than anything from Renishaw in my opinion.

I can't speak to retrofits, but Blum is significantly less than Renishaw on new machines. The install costs are the same, but the hardware is about 10% more, and Inspection+ tacks another $1200 or so onto the Renishaw. Blum rolls the macro pricing into the whole install kit.

Having worked with both (Renishaw is on my personal machine), the Blum TC52 + Z Nano setup is much superior to the Renishaw OMP-40/OTS combination. The Blum optical switching allows for single hits at fast feed rates with the same accuracy/repeatability, which doesn't impact setups, but has a big cycle time saving on in-process probing for automation applications.

We have a lot of customers who I try to educate about in-process probing with their robot setups, and they tend to not want to give up what they think will be 20 seconds of cycle. I set up some very basic in-process checks and usually have it done with the Blum in 5 seconds, including the tool changes on either end.

Two other things going on that folks might not know about:

- Blum and Brother Japan have partnered up and there has already been a public demo of Blum Easy Set graphical probing running in an app on the new D-00 control, including running the probe macros from MDI, and kinematic setting of 4/5 axis rotary centers. Should be out pretty soon.

- I bought Renishaw back in the day because Renishaw offered a crash replacement program; Blum and Yamazen now offer the same. If you bork your TC-52, Yamazen/Blum will take the busted spindle probe in on trade for a significant discount on a new one. This is only for

 

[hi-fly-cnc]

By no means as fast as some of the demos by people who know that they are doing. However this is stock Blum macros via Fusion360

Ed Wildgoose on Instagram: "Proving out the probing macros. The stock is placed only approximately in position, then the probe finds the centre (handles oddly cut stock more robustly) The estimated position of the stock is setup relative to a fixed

7,886 likes, 87 comments - hi_fly_cnc on April 18, 2023: "Proving out the probing macros. The stock is placed only approximately in position, then the prob..."

www.instagram.com

 

[gkoenig]

By no means as fast as some of the demos by people who know that they are doing. However this is stock Blum macros via Fusion360

Ed Wildgoose on Instagram: "Proving out the probing macros. The stock is placed only approximately in position, then the probe finds the centre (handles oddly cut stock more robustly) The estimated position of the stock is setup relative to a fixed

7,886 likes, 87 comments - hi_fly_cnc on April 18, 2023: "Proving out the probing macros. The stock is placed only approximately in position, then the prob..."

www.instagram.com

You are super close to maxing this out. Couple of things to tweak:

1- I've taken all the Probe On/Off codes, put them in a program, and assigned them to separate programs for Spindle Probe On/Off. Use the motion to the part to turn the probe on, use the motion during the end tool change to turn it off. Your goal, as always - the machine never stops moving.

You're already running the M1/M2/M3 to control probe power up/down sequence... take that to the next level. All your G65 P8700 calls should be M3 - we'll turn the probe on/off manually. Easily 2 seconds of savings.

2- Ditch the protected move. It has pauses and you're wasting 1.5 seconds. Just rapid right to the top where you start the XY hits.

3- Use the Q and R values to control overtravel. Probably another 2 seconds of unnecessary travel across all 4 touches.

Now, for low-volume run of a hundred parts, don't do any of this! But if we're talking about setting up a process that is in the high hundreds or thousands - where multiplying 4-5 seconds saved starts to add up to real time/money, tweaks like this take about 10 minutes to implement and are totally worth it.

 

[Matt@RFR]

I can't speak to retrofits, but Blum is significantly less than Renishaw on new machines. The install costs are the same, but the hardware is about 10% more, and Inspection+ tacks another $1200 or so onto the Renishaw. Blum rolls the macro pricing into the whole install kit.

Thanks for the correction. It dawned on me that I was comparing 2022 Blum / Yamazen pricing to 2010's Renishaw / Haas pricing.

- I bought Renishaw back in the day because Renishaw offered a crash replacement program; Blum and Yamazen now offer the same. If you bork your TC-52, Yamazen/Blum will take the busted spindle probe in on trade for a significant discount on a new one.

You know, it sure would be nice if Yamazen would disseminate this kind of thing voluntarily. If I crashed a probe before I read your post, I would have tossed it, used my spare and ordered a new one, since I would have no idea anything had changed.

Same goes for accuracy code updates / upgrades / documentation, control updates.... who knows what else we don't know.

 

[hi-fly-cnc]

I'll reply to Greg off list, but just in case anyone cares, I've been working on improving the Fusion360 post for the Brother + Blum. eg it now turns the probe on and leaves it on for all moves (speed!). Lots of other things as well! (like fixing the actual probing macros for Blum...)

Changelist here:
https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusion-360-post-processors/commits/main

Post here:
https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusion-360-post-processors

I concede I'm rather green, but I've started to find the probe rather useful for production stuff.... Really glad I purchased it (got the TC-52 spindle probe + z-nano)

 

[Pete Deal]

Well, maybe with If Yamazen has a deal with blum their replacement program will be reasonable. In the past blum has been a joke for replacement /repair. I had a znano that got coolant in it. Their fix was that they’d sell me another at 10% off. Scumbags!

 

[gkoenig]

Well, maybe with If Yamazen has a deal with blum their replacement program will be reasonable. In the past blum has been a joke for replacement /repair. I had a znano that got coolant in it. Their fix was that they’d sell me another at 10% off. Scumbags!

Yea, such stories are why I didn't buy Blum back in the day. Mind you, I'm an obnixious prick who isn't house trained, so in my first meeting with a high-up Blum rep, I flat out told him I didn't have Blum in my machine because of such stories from back in the day when I bought mine (~2018). He gave me the mea culpa and said that they were aware of the rep being built and worked on their warranty policy as well as with Yamazen to develop the replacement program for Yamazen/Speedio customers. The hardware has also been through a couple of revisions since, and so far - I've seen nothing but great service from Blum team. We have customers doing some tricky things in my region, and they've been fantastic to work with.

 

[Pete Deal]

Also, regarding just the tool length probes, it’s a stinking precision limit switch. The blum tool length probe i had was just a plunger with a little flag on the bottom ( inside) that interrupts a slot photo electric switch. Hardly worth what they want for them.

 

[DavidScott]

Don't forget Blum using polycabonate for the windows in their probes and when they cratered, because that is a comonly known issue with polycarbonate, Blum did nothing.