Burden of reshoring manufacturing back into USA?

[rbmgf7]

Feels like this topic has been discussed before but it hits different when you're witnessing it.

Guess over the past few years, a lot of companies realized that offshoring wasn't a great idea (my last employer, I literally watched old, POS equipment get moved south of the border to take advantage of cheap labor). I'm sure those past few decades, a few "up-top" made out just fine while the middle and lower obviously didn't but now it's catching-up to those "up-tops". For the one occasion I witnessed, you can take advantage of cheap labor but that doesn't mean you'll maintain or get an increase in production/quality, lol.

I've been interviewing for a new mnfg. eng. job for months now with a few on-sites and it appears that a decent majority of manufacturers are reshoring operations but are faced with two big dilemmas: manpower/turnover (all levels from the floor to engineering) and the lack of knowledge/experience (all the "old heads" are retiring, retired, or dead). I already noticed this with my previous employers when either a maintenance tech, seasoned laborer, or engineer retires, they don't do much regarding transitioning their knowledge or even getting backfilled by the company once they leave.

I've spoken with senior employees (my interactions are mostly engineering) that should've retired already but are being retained to hopefully pass on their four decades worth of knowledge to the upcoming generation. This then puts a huge burden on the junior engineer since trying to learn forty years worth of manufacturing knowledge in a matter of months, maybe a year, is very overwhelming. Then they still need to maintain production but corporate wants to battle the turnover/manpower issue on the floor by introducing automation. Now that junior engineer is spread so thin with learning, projects, and fire-fighting, they quit for [hopefully] greener pastures. Then the senior engineer is stuck, waiting to teach the next engineer. Then it'll get to the point, the green engineer will have to reinvent the wheel for an operation that has existed for decades just because they don't know the ins and outs. Then on top of all of that, the salaries don't really match with the workload especially if you have to put in the hours (there are some places the wage employees make more with OT than a salaried engineer working the same hours).

It's likely a good opportunity if you're willing to deal with the workload and pressure but obviously unnecessary since profit was put before people. Just feels temporary too since if a facility can accomplish its goal to automate, the company has to obviously recover the investment as quickly as possible and what better way to do it than lay off workers and engineers (lay off a few then hire new ones at lower wages/salaries).

Seem about right?

 

[jaguar36]

Sounds like a great opportunity to me. You get to learn from a senior guy, while getting to setup a new system with modern automated manufacturing methods. Setting up new automation is the fun part. Dealing with a 40 year old production line where the Senior engineer is the only guy who can fix it is a pain. Then when you get it all up and running you can move on with a ton of great experience and knowledge as well as some nice credentials to add to your resume.

As for the pay, pay is not related to workload, pay is related to supply and demand. If its too low, look somewhere else, or find a place where you get paid for OT.

 

[mhajicek]

In the old, old days, people often stayed with the same company for a lifetime. Then the bean counters decided they wanted to treat workers like a commodity, letting them go when demand slumped, and counting on being able to hire them back when demand increased again. But the workforce is rather inelastic; it takes two decades to make someone with 20 years experience, no shortcuts. They didn't want to adjust their pay scales for supply and demand; if they got away with paying a certain amount during the slump, they expected to get away with paying that same rate during high demand. This taught the workers that in order to get a raise, they had to switch companies, or even careers, so they lost any remaining loyalty to their employer, or in some cases even to their field of study. Add in the fact that these days anyone can search job postings worldwide, and work many of them remotely, and now the workers can treat the employers like a commodity; and the employers don't like it.

 

[machinistrrt]

... taught the workers that in order to get a raise, they had to switch companies, or even careers, so they lost any remaining loyalty to their employer, or in some cases even to their field of study. Add in the fact that these days anyone can search job postings worldwide, and work many of them remotely, and now the workers can treat the employers like a commodity; and the employers don't like it.

What goes around comes around. The same thing went on in healthcare, and with both groups, machining and healthcare, since there are no more traditional pensions, smart folks go where the money is.
My neighbor tells me the outfit he works for had a feverdream, or nightmare, and he is setting up training programs to grow their own machinists similar to the old apprenticeships.
This whole global thing was going to fail anyway once transportation costs overwhelmed low pay grades.

 

[Superbowl]

In the old, old days, people often stayed with the same company for a lifetime. Then the bean counters decided they wanted to treat workers like a commodity, letting them go when demand slumped, and counting on being able to hire them back when demand increased again. But the workforce is rather inelastic; it takes two decades to make someone with 20 years experience, no shortcuts. They didn't want to adjust their pay scales for supply and demand; if they got away with paying a certain amount during the slump, they expected to get away with paying that same rate during high demand. This taught the workers that in order to get a raise, they had to switch companies, or even careers, so they lost any remaining loyalty to their employer, or in some cases even to their field of study. Add in the fact that these days anyone can search job postings worldwide, and work many of them remotely, and now the workers can treat the employers like a commodity; and the employers don't like it.

In the "old old days" the US had a monopoly because we bombed the shit out of Europe and Japan. Hilter destroyed Russia. China had a Civil War resulting in a retreat by the Nationalist to Taiwan. Korea had its Civil War resulting in partition. It was easy back then for US employers to baby employees through any lean times. Once the rest of the world got back on their feet by the late 1960 's competition heated up. In the 1970's companies started to feel the heat and by the 1980's cheap overseas labor was putting old school companies out of business left and right. Labor is usually 70% or so of costs so the companies that were left had no choice but to cut labor costs. Don't blame the companies, they were just responding to the new reality. If your own arm gets gangrene you have to cut it off to save the rest of the body.

 

[john.k]

Reshoring is possible only with stuff the government is prepared to pay any price for..........the difference in cost of anything else is so great ,everyone says ...forget it.

 

[mhajicek]

In the "old old days" the US had a monopoly because we bombed the shit out of Europe and Japan...

I'm talking largely about the period between the start of the industrial revolution and WWII.

 

[john.k]

When I started in the late 60s,anything where the best was needed,you bought US made ......the exception being US cars ,where no one wanted the acres of pressed tin they forced on their customers.

 

[empower]

In the old, old days, people often stayed with the same company for a lifetime. Then the bean counters decided they wanted to treat workers like a commodity, letting them go when demand slumped, and counting on being able to hire them back when demand increased again. But the workforce is rather inelastic; it takes two decades to make someone with 20 years experience, no shortcuts. They didn't want to adjust their pay scales for supply and demand; if they got away with paying a certain amount during the slump, they expected to get away with paying that same rate during high demand. This taught the workers that in order to get a raise, they had to switch companies, or even careers, so they lost any remaining loyalty to their employer, or in some cases even to their field of study. Add in the fact that these days anyone can search job postings worldwide, and work many of them remotely, and now the workers can treat the employers like a commodity; and the employers don't like it.

i havent had a job at one place for longer than 3 years so far. hopefully i can stick around the current job for a lot more than that, 2 yr old startup that treats their employees VERY well, i have ~3m worth of new equipment all under my control, all new high end tooling etc. deff plan to stick around this one, but no way i'd have gotten to this point if i stuck around at my previous jobs hoping to get to what i'm being paid now.

 

[Scottl]

What goes around comes around. The same thing went on in healthcare, and with both groups, machining and healthcare, since there are no more traditional pensions, smart folks go where the money is.
My neighbor tells me the outfit he works for had a feverdream, or nightmare, and he is setting up training programs to grow their own machinists similar to the old apprenticeships.
This whole global thing was going to fail anyway once transportation costs overwhelmed low pay grades.

A relative was an airline pilot after leaving the military and had 2 pensions stolen by corporate raiders after takeovers. I have a couple friends who recently retired from a MIT affiliated lab that still retained traditional pensions and both are very secure in retirement after decades at a company that valued good loyal employees.

 

[john.k]

My very last job ,I was at for 7 years ......and when I quit there was considerable surprise ,as the management figured I would stick around .......thats what happens when you stick around ......you get treated as though you wont leave no matter what.

 

[john.k]

The business was sold,and I asked the old owners to convert my many weeks of sickleave into a cash settlement.....no way ,not proper old chap .............anyhoo ,six months later Im having lunch and drinks with the old owners ,and one of the partners sons is crying about how they had to take all my sickleave entitlement as a deduction from what they were paid......the full amount ,not the half payout I was offering.......I never had a day off sick,and 7 years worth was 14 weeks pay at my current rate.....nearly $20,000 .....in 2007 money..............And ,believe it or not ,Col who regularly fired workers for taking sickleave, is crying about how he would never let anyone amass so much sick leave ever gain.............Of course ,the joke was on me in the end ,when I quit,I never got a penny for the accumulated sickleave.

 

[empower]

The business was sold,and I asked the old owners to convert my many weeks of sickleave into a cash settlement.....no way ,not proper old chap .............anyhoo ,six months later Im having lunch and drinks with the old owners ,and one of the partners sons is crying about how they had to take all my sickleave entitlement as a deduction from what they were paid......the full amount ,not the half payout I was offering.......I never had a day off sick,and 7 years worth was 14 weeks pay at my current rate.....nearly $20,000 .....in 2007 money..............And ,believe it or not ,Col who regularly fired workers for taking sickleave, is crying about how he would never let anyone amass so much sick leave ever gain.............Of course ,the joke was on me in the end ,when I quit,I never got a penny for the accumulated sickleave.

never let your paid leave go unused...

 

[gustafson]

Reshoring is possible only with stuff the government is prepared to pay any price for..........the difference in cost of anything else is so great ,everyone says ...fo

This is not true.
Many things can be made here affordably, including many consumer items
I was a shocked a few years back that all the rural mailboxes were made in the USA at the Borg.
Things that are not purchased repeatedly have little effect on your cost of living.
The cheap Chinese junk we buy is not that cheap.
There will always be a place for the super cheap stuff, but when you get sick of buying a new toaster [or whatever] every 3 years, there will be a market for a slightly better, potentially USA made item

Back when a flat screen tv cost 2 grand, if a corporation had wanted to, they could have made them here.
But corporations shut down entire factories for a percent, so that wasn't happening.

 

[john.k]

A lot further back,I remember a TV program about the closure of the last television maker in the USA..must have been the 70s .

 

[standardparts]

A relative was an airline pilot after leaving the military and had 2 pensions stolen by corporate raiders after takeovers. I have a couple friends who recently retired from a MIT affiliated lab that still retained traditional pensions and both are very secure in retirement after decades at a company that valued good loyal employees.

Airline pilots and pensions. If the company does not steal it one of the ex-wives will.
Old joke.
The history of major airlines and pilots involves much drama. Major airline pilots with long successful careers are epic examples of doing things exactly right with luck on their side.

 

[Superbowl]

I'm talking largely about the period between the start of the industrial revolution and WWII.

Don't know it why you think it was so great in that time span for employees. No real benefits. Employers started benefits like health care and pensions during WWII to attract employees when the government froze wages. Since employers could not use higher wages to attract them they offered fringe benefits. No OSHA then either so a lot of guys got killed , maimed, or sickened and with no workman,'s comp. if you were too hurt or sick to work, no pay. Usually work then was 10-12 hours a day, six days a week. No holidays except Christmas day. It is foolish to romanticize that time period as it was not that great for workers. Compared to that time period, work is a picnic today.

 

[john.k]

Henry Ford hired the mob to keep unions out of his factories ......mine owners hired thugs with machine guns to fire on striking miners ........all in the 1930s........Ford is often quoted as a socialist hero for his "$5 day",but the intent was to break the Dodge Brothers new car plant before it got into production.

 

[Superbowl]

Henry Ford hired the mob to keep unions out of his factories ......mine owners hired thugs with machine guns to fire on striking miners ........all in the 1930s........Ford is often quoted as a socialist hero for his "$5 day",but the intent was to break the Dodge Brothers new car plant before it got into production.

Carnegie brought in the Pinkertons with rifles to break a strike. Several workers were killed. I respect the right to strike but these steel plant workers took over the plant and locked everyone out. Can't do that. Picket in the public land/sidewalk but no one has the right to block the street or take over private property.

 

[gustafson]

Henry Ford hired the mob to keep unions out of his factories ......mine owners hired thugs with machine guns to fire on striking miners ........all in the 1930s........Ford is often quoted as a socialist hero for his "$5 day",but the intent was to break the Dodge Brothers new car plant before it got into production.

Literally no one calls Ford a Socialist hero
He paid what he paid because he needed the help. Guys would get a job and not last the week. sanding model T spokes on a machine that never stops...F that I'm out. Next