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Buying equipment hope or reality?

updatedsecurity

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Hello.
I was wondering how you guys plan your equipment purchases. Do you buy for the jobs you are doing now or for improvement in your capabilities? I think I need to buy a second mill to go along with my haas vf2 as I am currently at capacity on it a need to do more jobs. I can buy a vf2ssyt with a 5th or I can buy a genos 560 with a fifth. Obviously there is a price difference. All my current work will be fine on the vf2ssy4t and it will be super easy to expand to it.The okuma on the other hand presents the possibility of longer parts faster spindle and travels and hopefully better finishes, but none of those are super necessary. Yes it would be nice but so would saving quiet a bit of money. Obviously the okuma is better, but why buy a rivian when an f150 will do at the moment.

Thank you
 
Before you make your decision, consider the following:

What's the outlook on getting work that requires the extra capability? If you are doing the simplest work your customers have to offer, an upgrade is more likely to benefit you than if you are already doing the most demanding work available without tracking down all new customers.

How much floor space do you have? There is an opportunity cost to filling your shop with basic machines. If you fill their capacities you will not be able to add another more capable machine without taking one out, which could be painful if you run into a steeper-than-expected learning curve on the upgrade.

Plenty of other factors, but those two jump to mind right away.
 
Do you really need 5 ax? Or would it be mostly 3+2?
With some creativity would 3+1 work?

I’ve never been a fan of mixing brands and needing a completely different program for each brand.

I’ve been trying for years to justify 5ax and I just can’t do it. Some places, sure. But it sounds like you just want bragging rights.

You’ll have to decide if you want to be a Haas shop or Okuma shop. The code does not transfer well at all.
 
Hello.
I need positional. We have a rotary now and a part for it (stainless) but it would be faster to do positional 3+2. In the past when we did art machining 5 axis would have been great. Weirdly at the moment we are both an okuma shop (lathe) and a haas shop (mill). As far as okuma yes I would need to buy more holders as they run different pull studs and yes the code will not transfer but can be reposted, provided of course the fusion post is ok

My worry is also buying almost the same machine. Similar to having two staplers.
 
I'm an "Okuma" guy although I do own a Mori as well.
If the work you are doing is coming off the Haas in an acceptable form, you might want to stick with it.
Yeah, the Okuma is way better, it's also a lot more money.
While never a big fan of Haas, they do have their place and can make money.
The code format on the Okuma OSP is radically different than the Haas, so something to be aware of.
 
I have never regretted buying the biggest machine envelope I could afford whenever I went to buy a machine.

I'd full send the PO for the Okuma and not even think twice, if I were in your shoes and those 2 machines were what I was comparing.
 
Can you either shit or get off the pot ? You've been running the same damn thread for weeks, and you're not moving forward at all. Do you want one of the damn things or not ? Decide what you need and look into it, instead of coming up with an endless array of the same old elementary question.
 
A machine purchase makes so much sense up until the point where it lands on your floor. Then the "oh shit" realization kicks in, where you need to put the machine to work.

All my current work will be fine on the vf2ssy4t and it will be super easy to expand to it.
Everything you're saying in recent threads suggests that the Haas is the right machine for you in your current situation.

Don't be swayed too readily by others on the internet. It's easy to spend someone else's money. It's true that the Okuma is the superior machine, but it might not be the superior business decision.
 
Can you either shit or get off the pot ? You've been running the same damn thread for weeks, and you're not moving forward at all. Do you want one of the damn things or not ? Decide what you need and look into it, instead of coming up with an endless array of the same old elementary question.
You ok buddy? You seem a little tense. I am pulling the trigger this week. Oh and I did contact some chinese manufacturers like you proposed in your private message.
 
You ok buddy? You seem a little tense.

Just a friendly kick in the pants, you don't seem to be getting anywhere ...

Oh and I did contact some chinese manufacturers

Eckchully, this subject started out well with an interesting discussion of design differences and a tiny bit of cost comparisons. Then it petered out. It would be nice if it continued along the original path, with design pluses and minuses and some real $$ numbers.

Sorry to kick your butt but four threads all at the same point in the process isn't cutting it. Buying a machine is pretty easy.

First you figure out what you'd like.

Then you figure out what's available.

Then you figure out what the prices are.

Then you figure out how close what you'd like comes to what you can afford.

Then you figure out if the bank will give you the money.

Then you decide if you really want to do this or if spending more time at the cabin fishing would be a better idea :)

It's not hard.

"Has quality gone down since the pandemic" is, like, silly :(
 
"Has quality gone down since the pandemic" is, like, silly:(
Actually not silly at all. I was going to go with the haas this friday but then called a guy who buys a lot of haas mills and the verdict is that yes the quality according to him has gone down. As far as the service, our own machine was not fixed by the hfo the last time but rather an independent dude. The hfo came out did not fix anything told me they would quote me on the necessary parts and then never contacted me again other then sending me a bill for the visit. So thats why there was this question, if the quality went down and the hfo is not as good any more this is troubling. A good machine with bad service would be workable, a bad one with bad service would be difficult.
 
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Actually not silly at all.

I guess I'm just disappointed. The original thread was going well, lots of real information about machines, you know, the stuff we're here to discuss. Design, performance, advantages of one style over another for different types of parts, even a bit of price info. I was hoping that would continue, and more real info about prices and maybe different methods for different type parts would start to come out.

Instead, we went off into "is wesson oil good for ways"-land, talking about what is basically stupid shit. This nonsense "is haas service worse than two years ago ?" is just gossip, there won't be any meaningful answer, one guy hates haas and will say one thing, another loves them and will say something else, milland will call names that they help the russians; unless you bought five machines in 2019 and another 5 in 2023 how the hell would you know anyway, it's just gossip. And "should you buy on spec or for work you already have?" there's no answer to that, everyone is different and there will be successes and failures in both directions. You just gotta put on the bigboy pants and make that decision for yourself.

Now, about design and prices, I'd love to hear more of that. You said you talked to companies, what did you come up with ? That's the big secret none of them will expose (except for haas, good for them), it wouold be informative for people thinking about this to have some real numbers without having to call every sleazebag salesman in north america.

Lots of people here put in a bunch of time to talk about 5 ax machines to help you make a decision, how about you reciprocate and fill us in on what the slimeball salesmen had to say on price ?
 
Was there not a thread last week about a fella looking to sell a pair of okumas? Call him.

PersonallyX if money/time is bountiful have some fun and get the fancy toy,
Otherwise it sounds like all you need is a haas to pound parts.
Okuma will take time to learn,
Haas will make parts the next day, no pull studs required.

It sounds to me like you do t need a machine at all but fancy another anyways.
Start watching auctions for a steal maybe. That’s what I do. I dont care if it takes me 3 years to get a new lathe. I’m looking and hoping for cheap :p
(Where is this reseasion I keep hearing about anyways?)
 
Can I ask the simple question?
You feel capacity limited and need a machine.
Are you running 3 shifts 24/7 on the machines you have now?
Hello.

No. There are just 2 of us and we want to keep it that way. Our current mill is running non stop though during our regular hours 7 days a week. Also re capacity we also mean size of work.
 
Hello.

No. There are just 2 of us and we want to keep it that way. Our current mill is running non stop though during our regular hours 7 days a week. Also re capacity we also mean size of work.
Hmm... but a VF2 with bolt-on 5th is going to keep you size-limited. You would need something like a UMC1000 or larger to get you into "big parts" territory.
 
Hmm... but a VF2 with bolt-on 5th is going to keep you size-limited. You would need something like a UMC1000 or larger to get you into "big parts" territory.
Yes. That was my feeling exactly. At the moment the parts would fit. What we like about a more expensive machine is the table space but then we are back to the question of hope vs reality. Anyways, we will figure something out.
 
Hello.

No. There are just 2 of us and we want to keep it that way. Our current mill is running non stop though during our regular hours 7 days a week.
This just screams automation. Get a robot. Run unattended and print money while you sleep....

THEN once you are up in the 80%+ spindle churnin time get another spindle, preferably with another robot to keep it company.
 
Hmm... but a VF2 with bolt-on 5th is going to keep you size-limited. You would need something like a UMC1000 or larger to get you into "big parts" territory.

That was where I wanted to see the thread go - there's also different styles of 5-ax. Some parts fit the trunnion-table type but on longer parts, like he was sort of describing in the first palce, the long table that does one rotary axis while the machine has a nutating head might make more sense. Or there's even mills with heads that have both axes in them, both like the old cincinnatis and some newer versions with the head on two 45's that rotate. When he originally said 17" long I was thinking of those but .... maybe another thread with someone who is serious.
 
We design all the products we make in house, so that obviously determines our needs.

But if you have in house CAD for working on your own or other customer's projects, they'll know exactly where the equipment you have is lacking.
 








 
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