CAD/CAM choices Siemens NX or Fusion 360

[empower]

Should be Inventor vs NX if those are your two vendor choices

inventor has CAM?

 

[Comatose]

Inventor's CAM is a moderately supported port of HSMWorks, which itself is the currently unsupported progenitor of the CAM in Fusion. To the degree that the posts are cross compatible. Which is to say, it's all the same thing. Fusion isn't bad if all you are doing with it is CAM. The price is hard to argue with. It's hard to believe that a 2000 seat organization is going to put up with "your files only live on Autodesk's servers" though, and the CAD half is a sad joke.

 

[wheelieking71]

Who the hell ends up at fusion or NX when its time for new/different CAM? That is so "stupid" it screams troll.

 

[gkoenig]

Who the hell ends up at fusion or NX when its time for new/different CAM? That is so "stupid" it screams troll.

They are the only two relevant and thriving CAD/CAM packages. Everyone else is currently lost in the woods to the point where I wouldn't bet on any of them besides F360 and NX.

- SolidWorks w/CAM is in a bad place. DSS doesn't have a cohesive strategy and SW growth has stalled (doesn't help that the feature set stalled years ago). Any survival of SolidWorks is 100% based on flywheel momentum and no on anything good DSS has had done to it in almost a decade.
- Inventor is a dead product walking. Just like PartMaker and Feature CAM. The Fusion team is stripping all of these other packages for parts and incrementally shifting resources away. This is a statement of fact, not an opinion.
- Esprit is now owned by Hexagon. Who knows how that will wind up?
- MasterCAM is now owned by a cutting tool company. Who knows how that will wind up?
- CATIA makes NX look like a bargain and has zero user base outside of a handful of Fortune 500 companies and their captive suppliers.
- SolidEdge is a dumb offering. Ok, it is fine CAD... sure. Who cares? The CAM is NX and what Siemens should do is strip TeamCenter integration from NX, lower the price to make it the SMB path for NX, and kill SE. Supporting two packages - one of them always crippled because it can't ever be allowed to cannibalize the crown jewel, is management bozo dumb dumb extreme.

 

[jaguar36]

- Esprit is now owned by Hexagon. Who knows how that will wind up?

Hexagon has been buying a bunch of CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM/FEA type companies. They seem pretty intent on making a full package offering and becoming a major player in the space. Course I've never heard of anyone actually using their CAD package, but it wouldn't surprise me if they either throw alot of money at developing it or if they buy another more mature CAD product. I'd be pretty optimistic on the future of Esprit. Course they also own Edgecam so who knows.

- CATIA makes NX look like a bargain and has zero user base outside of a handful of Fortune 500 companies and their captive suppliers.

You mean outside most of the aerospace industry and like half the automotive industry?


Unless there is some enterprise version of Fusion that doesn't rely on Autodesk's cloud, I don't see it as a competitor to NX.

 

[empower]

Hexagon has been buying a bunch of CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM/FEA type companies. They seem pretty intent on making a full package offering and becoming a major player in the space. Course I've never heard of anyone actually using their CAD package, but it wouldn't surprise me if they either throw alot of money at developing it or if they buy another more mature CAD product. I'd be pretty optimistic on the future of Esprit. Course they also own Edgecam so who knows.

You mean outside most of the aerospace industry and like half the automotive industry?


Unless there is some enterprise version of Fusion that doesn't rely on Autodesk's cloud, I don't see it as a competitor to NX.

were you aware that Siemens is pushing NX-X pretty hard? their own cloud offering.

 

[GiroDyno]

A little bit OT, but I don't understand why people seem to think NX has a steeper learning curve than Fusion360 (or MasterCAM, or any other CAD software for that matter). NX just has a greater wealth of available features/commands, but it still has the same 8 (10, 12?) most commonly used commands and workflow as every other program that's been made in the past decade... At worst it just has a different shaped icon and is 3 inches to the right on your screen, and you can always customize your layout.
If anything NX is easier to use because it usually requires fewer keystrokes/clicks to complete a command.

 

[jaguar36]

were you aware that Siemens is pushing NX-X pretty hard? their own cloud offering.

Yep I imagine they make alot more money selling it as a service, and a subscription cost is probably more palatable for some users (even if its alot more expensive over time). I was surprised to hear that its not ITAR compliant which makes it unusable for alot of folks.

 

[jaguar36]

A little bit OT, but I don't understand why people seem to think NX has a steeper learning curve than Fusion360 (or MasterCAM, or any other CAD software for that matter). NX just has a greater wealth of available features/commands, but it still has the same 8 (10, 12?) most commonly used commands and workflow as every other program that's been made in the past decade... At worst it just has a different shaped icon and is 3 inches to the right on your screen, and you can always customize your layout.
If anything NX is easier to use because it usually requires fewer keystrokes/clicks to complete a command.

The 'problem' is that there is a ton of free Fusion training on Youtube or what have you. There is alot less for NX. For NX you really need to pay Siemens to get access to all of the training. Its not alot compared to the cost of the license though, and then you know its of a reasonably good quality vs whatever you find on Youtube.

 

[GiroDyno]

If you're starting from zero, sure. But once you understand that how to start with a sketch, add dimensions, turn that into a solid, and put a WCS on the corner, they're all pretty much the same. Just different names and icons for the same functions.
I don't doubt that there are people whos first foray into CAD/CAM is going to be in NX, but its probably not most of them. The only thing that I remember needing training for was post processor development, but again that's probably not something that most users need. Modeling and programming becomes pretty intuitive after a few years experience using anything else.

As a current Fusion360 user and ex-NXer; if the budget is big enough then there's no need for a debate, just get NX.

 

[gkoenig]

You mean outside most of the aerospace industry and like half the automotive industry?

Nobody chooses CATIA.
You use CATIA because you are working with one of the Aero/Auto companies who put a gun to your head and make you buy it.

 

[coyoinu]

 

[Areo Defense]

...and kill SE. Supporting two packages - one of them always crippled because it can't ever be allowed to cannibalize the crown jewel, is management bozo dumb dumb extreme.

OT but...I hear you. Being a long time NX user, since UG 9 or 10, I recall when UGS bought SDRC (Ideas) and there was a roadmap to kill them off after transitioning Ideas users over the course of 3-4 releases. I think that may have been where NX naming came in; it was supposed to be a new name so Ideas users wouldn't feel like they were being sucked up via Mega-Corp-Osmosis.

The way NX licensing is super flexible and sites can purchase only the number of cad, cam, and cae licenses they actually need, makes it more attractive than ever. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to have node-locked uber bundles that costs $36K+. Those days are long gone thankfully and if you look at NX cam-only licenses it's virtually a no brainer when you compare NX cam to mid-tier cam software.

 

[empower]

OT but...I hear you. Being a long time NX user, since UG 9 or 10, I recall when UGS bought SDRC (Ideas) and there was a roadmap to kill them off after transitioning Ideas users over the course of 3-4 releases. I think that may have been where NX naming came in; it was supposed to be a new name so Ideas users wouldn't feel like they were being sucked up via Mega-Corp-Osmosis.

The way NX licensing is super flexible and sites can purchase only the number of cad, cam, and cae licenses they actually need, makes it more attractive than ever. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to have node-locked uber bundles that costs $36K+. Those days are long gone thankfully and if you look at NX cam-only licenses it's virtually a no brainer when you compare NX cam to mid-tier cam software.

how does one do CAM without ANY cad work?

 

[gkoenig]

how does one do CAM without ANY cad work?

You would be *shocked* at how many shops think the junk CAM built into MasterCAM is just fine.

 

[empower]

You would be *shocked* at how many shops think the junk CAM built into MasterCAM is just fine.

oh, i wont... and i'm unfortunately way too aware of how horrible it is, lol.

 

[wheelieking71]

They are the only two relevant and thriving CAD/CAM packages. Everyone else is currently lost in the woods to the point where I wouldn't bet on any of them besides F360 and NX.

- SolidWorks w/CAM is in a bad place. DSS doesn't have a cohesive strategy and SW growth has stalled (doesn't help that the feature set stalled years ago). Any survival of SolidWorks is 100% based on flywheel momentum and no on anything good DSS has had done to it in almost a decade.
- Inventor is a dead product walking. Just like PartMaker and Feature CAM. The Fusion team is stripping all of these other packages for parts and incrementally shifting resources away. This is a statement of fact, not an opinion.
- Esprit is now owned by Hexagon. Who knows how that will wind up?
- MasterCAM is now owned by a cutting tool company. Who knows how that will wind up?
- CATIA makes NX look like a bargain and has zero user base outside of a handful of Fortune 500 companies and their captive suppliers.
- SolidEdge is a dumb offering. Ok, it is fine CAD... sure. Who cares? The CAM is NX and what Siemens should do is strip TeamCenter integration from NX, lower the price to make it the SMB path for NX, and kill SE. Supporting two packages - one of them always crippled because it can't ever be allowed to cannibalize the crown jewel, is management bozo dumb dumb extreme.

Yea, I am aware of all that. My comment was pretty "tongue in cheek". You know exactly where I stand, LOL.

 

[gkoenig]

Yea, I am aware of all that. My comment was pretty "tongue in cheek". You know exactly where I stand, LOL.

I know, you just love that Autodesk. Total Carl Bass simp!

 

[car2]

If you're starting from zero, sure. But once you understand that how to start with a sketch, add dimensions, turn that into a solid, and put a WCS on the corner, they're all pretty much the same. Just different names and icons for the same functions.
I don't doubt that there are people whos first foray into CAD/CAM is going to be in NX, but its probably not most of them. The only thing that I remember needing training for was post processor development, but again that's probably not something that most users need. Modeling and programming becomes pretty intuitive after a few years experience using anything else.

As a current Fusion360 user and ex-NXer; if the budget is big enough then there's no need for a debate, just get NX.

One of the main things I have always liked about Unigraphics, now NX, and I've been using it since 1995, is that it does not force you to use a sketcher (and I rarely do)--you can model free-form lines, curves, 3-d curves, splines, surfaces, have multiple solids in the same model, project random 3-d curves in space onto surfaces, split surfaces with weird projected curves, etc. I've used CATIA many years ago (horrible at the time, forced you to use surface-modelling), Pro E a bit (hated being constrained to sketcher), Solidworks (again hated being constrained to sketcher, and very limited complex surfacing capabilities, and assemblies drove me crazy with all its forced links to everything).
Assemblies is very good in NX, and I find it very fast and efficient for doing development work because of the flexibility of methods of working (it fits my "stream of consciousness" random thinking...). On two occasions in the past, I had the ProE folks attempt to do some common modelling tasks that I had at the time that involved projecting curves out in space onto 3-d surfaces, then doing things like subdividing and offsetting those curves on the surface---those are the types of things UG/NX could do that couldn't be done by other programs (well, some might approximate the operations with a huge amount of rigamarole).

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

On two occasions in the past, I had the ProE folks attempt to do some common modelling tasks that I had at the time that involved projecting curves out in space onto 3-d surfaces, then doing things like subdividing and offsetting those curves on the surface---those are the types of things UG/NX could do that couldn't be done by other programs

Did you ever try Alias Studio ? That's the kind of artsy-craftsy stuff it was good at. None of my parts have ever been those weird-ass shapes, so sketcher doesn't bother me

That's one thing a lot of these "what's the best cad ?" discussions miss - what works best kind of depends on what you're doing.

However, under no circumstances would I ever depend upon anything from Autodesk. They have proven themselves to be totally unreliable. Caveat emptor.