Can I modify channeling rib on a steel magazine?

[idkfa]

I was not challenging your experience...did a search to see simply to see how much a problem it is and what the general consensus is. The 'net can be a wealth of info---most times.

As far as S&W goes...no doubt any previous record of acknowledging and engaging in blanket warranty policy or even a recall is likely counter to legal advice regarding liability and service reps are advised to not say a damn thing.

But...back to topic...depending on how many of that particular handgun is out there it's surprising one of the mag companies (at least one of the good mag companies) is not producing an "enhanced" mag.

Oh absolutely, I did not take it as anything but a good-faith attempt to help -- and it is much appreciated!
Since you brought up the specifics of the issue, I just thought it'd be fair for me to elaborate a bit more... and it is the issue that colored my message with a dash of apprehension. I assure you the latter is aimed squarely at S&W.

Also ditto on both points.
I understand the legal ramifications, but one has to wonder what the point of the "lifetime" warranty is if the manufacturer is going to dodge legitimate claims. I can imagine/propose at least 3 different ways this could've been handled well without admitting there's any issue at all.
Regarding the mag customization or custom mags, I've gone so far as to try and call Mec-Gar and a couple of other companies inquiring if they are into this kind of stuff but received a very firm "no" before I could even begin elaborating on what it is I was proposing. Oh well.

 

[standardparts]

Oh absolutely, I did not take it as anything but a good-faith attempt to help -- and it is much appreciated!
Since you brought up the specifics of the issue, I just thought it'd be fair for me to elaborate a bit more... and it is the issue that colored my message with a dash of apprehension. I assure you the latter is aimed squarely at S&W.

Also ditto on both points.
I understand the legal ramifications, but one has to wonder what the point of the "lifetime" warranty is if the manufacturer is going to dodge legitimate claims. I can imagine/propose at least 3 different ways this could've been handled well without admitting there's any issue at all.
Regarding the mag customization or custom mags, I've gone so far as to try and call Mec-Gar and a couple of other companies inquiring if they are into this kind of stuff but received a very firm "no" before I could even begin elaborating on what it is I was proposing. Oh well.F

My limited experience is there are very few places that will take on production of low volume firearm feed devices. It's either the BIG players and then maybe a few "boutique" producers. There is one small company in Ohio(?) who does oddball stuff but per unit cost is high.
BTW---Who is producing mags for the current version of the S&W company?

Back in the day Wayne Machine in Taiwan had the ability to supply common and obsolete mags but usually the quantities are too high for anyone without a distribution sales network and the willingness to jump through the Form 6 paperwork stuff along with lead times.

The mag you picture could be modified no doubt but it's just a matter of how much do you want to spend versus, once again, moving on to another brand/type of firearm.

 

[idkfa]

BTW---Who is producing mags for the current version of the S&W company?

No idea.

just a matter of how much do you want to spend

Yeah, I totally get that. That being said, I was trying to get approach it along the lines of what you said in the previous post:

it's surprising one of the mag companies (at least one of the good mag companies) is not producing an "enhanced" mag

It would seem that there's a market for this. Furthermore, it appears that the mags for this M&P were not available for at least 6 months since its release -- and yet nobody stepped in.
Definitely not what I expected from a revered brand and an overall well-tested and widespread pistol platform (that is, M&P 2.0).

 

[mattthemuppet]

I know next to nothing about guns, but I know from experience that forming metal, particularly once it's already formed, it's really challenging.

Coming at out from a different angle, would it be possible to drill a series of small holes at the end of the existing ramp, then silver solder/ jb weld in a series of pins. Then file into a ramp shape from the inside? If the aim is to move the bullet away from the catch (like you credit card mod), then that should work. Or glue in some shim stock?

 

[kopcicle]

Cerrosafe is a fusible alloy with a low melting point. It is a non-eutectic mixture consisting of 42.5% bismuth, 37.7% lead, 11.3% tin, and 8.5% cadmium that melts between 158 °F (70 °C) and 190 °F (88 °C). It is useful for making reference castings whose dimensions can be correlated to those of the mold or other template due to its well-known thermal expansion properties during cooling. The alloy contracts during the first 30 minutes, allowing easy removal from a mold, then expands during the next 30 minutes to return to the exact original size. It then continues expanding at a known rate for 200 hours, allowing conversion of measurements of the casting back to those of the mold.
~wikipedia

Been here and done this. Just not on a magazine.
So disassemble the magazine and aluminum tape all the holes closed. Pour the metal into the magazine and allow to solidify. Remove your casting and dimension it as best as you can. Reproduce it in mild steel. Make the desired modifications (longer rib) and when done insert the resulting steel mandrel into the magazine. Beat the magazine into submission the modified recess in the mandrel. A blunt chisel about the width of the rib indentation should, well you get it :-)

You could probably whittle something out of hardwood but it wouldn't last long

 

[idkfa]

I know next to nothing about guns, but I know from experience that forming metal, particularly once it's already formed, it's really challenging.

Coming at out from a different angle, would it be possible to drill a series of small holes at the end of the existing ramp, then silver solder/ jb weld in a series of pins. Then file into a ramp shape from the inside? If the aim is to move the bullet away from the catch (like you credit card mod), then that should work. Or glue in some shim stock?

Thanks for the suggestion! I also thought about JB Weld or JB Steel, and someone else here suggested brazing. However, it's a bit tight inside, and it'll be challenging to reproduce the same results on other magazines.
I haven't completely dismissed this approach yet, but so far reforming seems a very appealing prospect.

 

[idkfa]

Cerrosafe is a fusible alloy with a low melting point. It is a non-eutectic mixture consisting of 42.5% bismuth, 37.7% lead, 11.3% tin, and 8.5% cadmium that melts between 158 °F (70 °C) and 190 °F (88 °C). It is useful for making reference castings whose dimensions can be correlated to those of the mold or other template due to its well-known thermal expansion properties during cooling. The alloy contracts during the first 30 minutes, allowing easy removal from a mold, then expands during the next 30 minutes to return to the exact original size. It then continues expanding at a known rate for 200 hours, allowing conversion of measurements of the casting back to those of the mold.
~wikipedia

Been here and done this. Just not on a magazine.
So disassemble the magazine and aluminum tape all the holes closed. Pour the metal into the magazine and allow to solidify. Remove your casting and dimension it as best as you can. Reproduce it in mild steel. Make the desired modifications (longer rib) and when done insert the resulting steel mandrel into the magazine. Beat the magazine into submission the modified recess in the mandrel. A blunt chisel about the width of the rib indentation should, well you get it :-)

You could probably whittle something out of hardwood but it wouldn't last long

Thank you so much for the detailed suggestion!

 

[JROC]

Not to kill the innovative, "build a fix to an issue" spirit on a machinist forum, but unless you are trying to build a fix that you can sell to other owners on the market, then I wouldn't bother. You having to fix such a frankly stupid, and problematic issue with a gun as mainstream as an M&P is BS, and IMO not worth the investment in your time or money. If your out hiking and some bear, cougar, or male rapist jumps out and starts attacking you, are you going to trust this fix with your life?

I'm far from a M&P hater. My Shield is one of my favorite handguns. Also when talking 9MM there are many other guns I'd pick over Glocks. Not that Glock doesn't make great 9MM's, they're just "meh," and plenty of companies make just as good a 9MM pistols that are less "meh." Now when it comes to 10MM I fan the F out over Glocks. Glock has been in the 10MM game for a long time. More than any other gun including the Delta Elite they are responsible for saving the round, and no other 10MM that I've shot tames the 10MM, is as reliable regardless of the load in the rounds, or does these things at the same value as a Glock chambered in 10MM. I highly recommend trading that in for a G20. Truly an excellent firearm.

Look I'm for fixing little issues on my 80% AK builds, but damn buying a new polymer/striker fired handgun from a top tier manufacturer, to have an issue that they won't recognize, and that requires re-hitting a stamped magazine that may, or may not lead to other issues in the tight confines of a small grip, 10MM pistol.

If I was you, and I didn't want to get ride of the gun for something else, then I would just put it to the side for a year or two, and wait to see if the OEM sneaks in a new magazine design, or something like that to fix this boneheaded issue that should not exist.

JMO

 

[idkfa]

Not to kill the innovative, "build a fix to an issue" spirit on a machinist forum, but unless you are trying to build a fix that you can sell to other owners on the market, then I wouldn't bother. You having to fix such a frankly stupid, and problematic issue with a gun as mainstream as an M&P is BS, and IMO not worth the investment in your time or money. If your out hiking and some bear, cougar, and male rapist jumps out and starts attacking you, are you going to trust this fix with your life?

I'm far from a M&P hater. My Shield is one of my favorite handguns. Also when talking 9MM there are many other guns I pick over Glocks. Not that Glock don't make great 9MM, they're just "meh," and plenty of companies make just as good a 9MM pistols that are less "meh." Now it comes to 10MM I fan the F out over Glocks. Glock has been in the 10MM game for a long time. More than any other gun including the Delta Elite they are responsible for saving the round, and no other 10MM that I've shot tames the 10MM, is as reliable regardless of the load in the rounds, or does these things at the same value as a Glock chambered in 10MM. I highly recommend trading that in for a G20. Truly an excellent firearm.

Look I'm for fixing little issues on my 80% AK builds, but damn buying a new polymer/striker fired handgun from a top tier manufacturer, to have an issue that they won't recognize, and that requires re-hitting a stamped magazine that may, or may not lead to other issues in the tight confines of a small grip, 10MM pistol.

If I was you, and I didn't want to get ride of the gun for something else, then I would just put it to the side for a year or two, and wait to see if the OEM sneaks in a new magazine design, or something like that to fix this boneheaded issue that should not exist.

JMO

All well-reasoned advice is much appreciated!
Am I gonna trust my life to my mod? Ugh. Totally depends on how it turns out. In general, yes, I am accustomed to trusting my life to the fruits of my labor, so to speak, -- primarily because I'm a "safety nut."
In this case, it totally depends how ugly the result turns out.
Basically, it's a "project gun" for the foreseeable future, and I'll treat it as such.

I would just put it to the side for a year or two, and wait to see if the OEM sneaks in a new magazine design

That's part of the bigger plan. In the meantime, I'm itching to get a "good enough" fix to rub it in S&W's face. Maybe that'll shame them into admitting and fixing the issue? Plus, it'll be a whole lot easier for them to fix the die/press/break/whatever they're using when you have a complete debugging log and a POC.
Curiously, there were other complaints with this M&P, mostly FTFs, but there weren't any remotely systematic evaluations floating around, and I don't have that issue.
S&W reportedly also quietly replaced the recoil springs in some of the guns that were returned to them -- people noticed weird orange paint on theirs when they got their guns back. Nobody knows for sure though.

Now it comes to 10MM I fan the F out over Glocks. Glock has been in the 10MM game for a long time.

Heard nothing but fantastic things about the G20, but just didn't like it. Too big, too bulky, "wrong" grip angle, and it needs new sights at minimum. Just not my cup of tea.
I am, however, looking to try the FN 510 once it becomes more widely available. It seems promising (but they all are at first).

 

[JROC]

All well-reasoned advice is much appreciated!
Am I gonna trust my life to my mod? Ugh. Totally depends on how it turns out. In general, yes, I am accustomed to trusting my life to the fruits of my labor, so to speak, -- primarily because I'm a "safety nut."
In this case, it totally depends how ugly the result turns out.
Basically, it's a "project gun" for the foreseeable future, and I'll treat it as such.

That's part of the bigger plan. In the meantime, I'm itching to get a "good enough" fix to rub it in S&W's face. Maybe that'll shame them into admitting and fixing the issue? Plus, it'll be a whole lot easier for them to fix the die/press/break/whatever they're using when you have a complete debugging log and a POC.
Curiously, there were other complaints with this M&P, mostly FTFs, but there weren't any remotely systematic evaluations floating around, and I don't have that issue.
S&W reportedly also quietly replaced the recoil springs in some of the guns that were returned to them -- people noticed weird orange paint on theirs when they got their guns back. Nobody knows for sure though.

Heard nothing but fantastic things about the G20, but just didn't like it. Too big, too bulky, "wrong" grip angle, and it needs new sights at minimum. Just not my cup of tea.
I am, however, looking to try the FN 510 once it becomes more widely available. It seems promising (but they all are at first).

I to am very interested in the FN 510. My 509 has become my favorite handgun even compared to my CZ75 fandom. Fun how I bought it because it was on sell and didn't think I was going to like it that much, but ended up loving that gun. People can whine about it's trigger and weigh until they're blue in the face, but it's just such a nice shooting peace, and very easy to shoot accurately. I bought a PDP think I would prefer it to my 509, but no, I find the 509 to be a much better shooting pistol than the Walther.

 

[idkfa]

I to am very interested in the FN 510. My 509 has become my favorite handgun even compared to my CZ75 fandom. Fun how I bought it because it was on sell and didn't think I was going to like it that much, but ended up loving that gun. People can whine about it's trigger and weigh until they're blue in the face, but it's just such a nice shooting peace, and very easy to shoot accurately. I bought a PDP think I would prefer it to my 509, but no, I find the 509 to be a much better shooting pistol than the Walther.

And they say the trigger on the 510 is much improved as well, so it does look very attractive on paper.
I'm debating if I should wait for more reviews or just get it whenever it pops up on gun.deals. Fun fact about reviews: none of the youtubers who get sent guns for review had the issue with the M&P, and many shot mags full of spicy stuff with hardcast bullets.
I wonder if they get special treatment and/or limited production guns and/or better overall QC. In any case, my faith in gun reviews has been greatly weakened.

 

[JROC]

And they say the trigger on the 510 is much improved as well, so it does look very attractive on paper.
I'm debating if I should wait for more reviews or just get it whenever it pops up on gun.deals. Fun fact about reviews: none of the youtubers who get sent guns for review had the issue with the M&P, and many shot mags full of spicy stuff with hardcast bullets.
I wonder if they get special treatment and/or limited production guns and/or better overall QC. In any case, my faith in gun reviews has been greatly weakened.

The M&P does shoot well for me. I shoot my Shield better than I do some full-sized pistols, and it's GEN1, and I don't have it APEX'd or anything. I really want to get a Shield Plus in the near future. The knock against hinged triggers is way overblown IMHO. I agreed that they don't feel sexy, but they don't seem to really hinder me hitting with the gun either. And let's be realistic here, no polymer/striker fired pistol who's using a trigger based safety is going to have as nice a trigger as even a quality entry level 1911. Not even guns like PDP, P10, VP9, etc. Also I shoot my Dagger well and it's hinged trigger doesn't offend me. I have Glicks with aftermarket triggers, and IMHO the improvement in the trigger is just nit worth the asking price over a good polishing good. I've gotten away from using aftermarket connectors, and heavier trigger spring as well.

I think that most respected guntubers try and give honest reviews, but the reality is they're giving you their opinions, and we all know what those are like. I don't mind hinged triggers, but some might. I don't love a Glock grip, but it doesn't bother me either, but you don't like it. I have no love for .45 ACP outside of a 1911, but many think it's a great round. These are just all our opinions, just like I don't desire to own 4 Glocks chambered in 9MM when there are many great 9MM handguns on the market, but many want 3 different G19's, a G19X, a G34, and a G17.

One example I have in Nutnfancy did a review on a SS DR920. He claim that it's trigger wasn't very good. I was thinking that this guys smoking some serious stuff as the SS guns I had handled at the fun store had great triggers. But since that video came out I've handled 2 SS XR920's who triggers left much to be desired on a $900+ Glock clone. But let's say 8 of 10 SS guns have great triggers, where 2 of them have one's that aren't so good. That's been my experience anyway, and it changed my opinion on his review of the gun. I feel he was being honest with his review, but at first I thought it was BS.

 

[idkfa]

The M&P does shoot well for me. I shoot my Shield better than I do some full-sized pistols, and it's GEN1, and I don't have it APEX'd or anything. I really want to get a Shield Plus in the near future. The knock against hinged triggers is way overblown IMHO. I agreed that they don't feel sexy, but they don't seem to really hinder me hitting with the gun either. And let's be realistic here, no polymer/striker fired pistol who's using a trigger based safety is going to have as nice a trigger as even a quality entry level 1911. Not even guns like PDP, P10, VP9, etc. Also I shoot my Dagger well and it's hinged trigger doesn't offend me. I have Glicks with aftermarket triggers, and IMHO the improvement in the trigger is just nit worth the asking price over a good polishing good. I've gotten away from using aftermarket connectors, and heavier trigger spring as well.

I think that most respected guntubers try and give honest reviews, but the reality is they're giving you their opinions, and we all know what those are like. I don't mind hinged triggers, but some might. I don't love a Glock grip, but it doesn't bother me either, but you don't like it. I have no love for .45 ACP outside of a 1911, but many think it's a great round. These are just all our opinions, just like I don't desire to own 4 Glocks chambered in 9MM when there are many great 9MM handguns on the market, but many want 3 different G19's, a G19X, a G34, and a G17.

One example I have in Nutnfancy did a review on a SS DR920. He claim that it's trigger wasn't very good. I was thinking that this guys smoking some serious stuff as the SS guns I had handled at the fun store had great triggers. But since that video came out I've handled 2 SS XR920's who triggers left much to be desired on a $900+ Glock clone. But let's say 8 of 10 SS guns have great triggers, where 2 of them have one's that aren't so good. That's been my experience anyway, and it changed my opinion on his review of the gun. I feel he was being honest with his review, but at first I thought it was BS.

guntubers try and give honest reviews

Absolutely. I am wondering, however, if the manufacturers send them guns that were selected especially thoroughly.
Gritty trigger, frame, etc. -- as you've rightfully pointed out, those are just opinions. Some like what others hate. But major failures is a whole different ballgame, clearly. I watched every (I do think so) video review of the M&P 10mm (and many videos of its competitors), where the gun was provided by the manufacturer -- and not a single notable malfunction was reported. That's just weird.
It seems to be pointing to selection bias in which guns are sent to the guntubers.

Furthermore, curiously, the 10mm polymer pistols (except Glocks) apparently are plagued by issues.
Sig's X-TEN has a problem with a mag: the rounds get stuck for some reason. At least 2 users reported this online, and, naturally, Sig refused to acknowledge the problem. They are stuck with malfunctioning guns.
SA's XDm in 10mm was reported to have multiple FTF of unknown etiology. Same response from SA -- that is, no response.