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Can I use a mill as a boring machine

keysync

Plastic
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Location
Indiana
I'm looking at buying a boring machine for jet ski, motorcycle, etc cylinder boring.
I have been wondering if buying something like a bridgeport vertical mill wouldn't be a better move because of it's versatility.

But I don't know whether a mill like that is capable of doing good bore work or not.
I've only ever used a boring machine.
There's a Van Norman boring machine on ebay I'm looking at now Winona Van Norman CB1401 Cylinder Boring Machine Great Condition | eBay

Any info on this decision would be greatly appreciated.
 

keysync

Plastic
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Location
Indiana
Your average bridgeport type mill can bore cylinders and much more, looks like that other machine is a 1 trick pony.

It is a 1 trick pony for sure.
I just never used a standard mill so I didn't know if it would do it or not.
Thanks for the help!
 

keysync

Plastic
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Location
Indiana
You are shi**ing us right?

JB


Nope.
Never used a mill so I didn't know.
I have always farmed out the machine work on all engine builds for the past 18 years.
The local machine shop just closed because the owner retired and liquidated. So I'm wanting to start boring my own cylinders instead of driving an hour to have it done.
 

Mike C.

Diamond
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
Birmingham, AL
Bridgeport is barely adequate for cylinder boring. The VN and Kwikway boring bars are one trick ponys, but they do that trick extremely well. You will also need a Sunnen hone to properly finish the job and especially if you are working two stroke cylinders with piston ports. Any other type hone will egg out on the ported areas, due to less area being worked.
 

keysync

Plastic
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Location
Indiana
Yeah I will be doing a lot of two stroke cylinders.
So you think a standard boring bar is the better way to go in this situation?
 

Forrest Addy

Diamond
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Location
Bremerton WA USA
BS to the nay-sayers. Don't get me wrong; a purpose built self-feeding portable boring bar is great but they have limitations their users might not appreciate when compared to a general purpose machine tool of a size and suitability or the work. A turret (Bridgeport) mill was mentioned. First limitation in boring cylinders in a turret mill might be the 5" quill stroke but if you were extend the quill and bore with the vertical knee travel (need a knee feed unit, here) you can bore to maybe 10" deep - if the cylinder can swallow a 3 3/8" dia quill.

It was alleged that a cylinder bored in a mill would "egg out". This assertion needs to be supported by constraints under which this would happen. I submit if the tooling was suitable and the set-up was competent the limitation wold be dependent on the tracking of the quill or the knee.

Boring cylinders is not rocket science. They do have to be round, properly finished to seat the rings, straight (or properly tapered), and to size. I've bored lawnmover engines to cylinder liners for uniflow marine (22" bore, 40+" stroke) steam engines and trust me most any machine tool in reasonable shape can do the job. It's usually a gravy job once set up.

Where one-trick pony boring bars come into their own is they are portable and much less expensive than a full featured machine tool - and they have the expanding guide that follows the bore as the bar feeds out. In an auomotive machine shop dedicated cylinder boring apparatus is a shrewd purchase costing thousands less than a milling machine of sufficient capacity and probably quicker for a single bore than on a mill IF a plain bore is all that's required.

The cool thing about a machine tool is you can correct a bore geometry and adjust for bore spacing etc.

If you can fit a turret mill or an HBM in your budget you can do a hellova lot more than bore cylinders. And the cylinders you do bore can be made round and to size leaving just the right amount of honing stock.

Honing stock and how to hone is a whole other topic.
 
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Forrest Addy

Diamond
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Location
Bremerton WA USA
Fer that matter a single cylinder off a motorcycle is a lathe job. Chuck it genty by the fins or the bottom flange, dial it in, and bore it. Less than a hour back in my prime - OK! OK! Two hours! Sheesh!!!

I used to have a dozen or so rings I chucked to so I could bolt on the cylinders. Yamaha and Kawasaki trail bikes mostly but a few others.
 

Metalcutter

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Location
San Diego
Yeah I will be doing a lot of two stroke cylinders.
So you think a standard boring bar is the better way to go in this situation?

It looks like you are trying to make a living and not a hobby. If so get the machine you can trust to do the job. It's quicker to set up and it will repeat. Bridgeport is a good enough for now machine, and you have to baby it to bore the hole to size. The Bridgeport isn't rigid enough to trust a bore, unless the hole is under a half inch in diameter and depth. Yes you can do it on a Bridgeport, but it's a time sponge to get it right.

Go for the tool that is set up to make you money, and when you have the money, get a Bridgeport to have fun with.

I've over done this. Sheesh!

Regards,

Stan-
 

Mike C.

Diamond
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
Birmingham, AL
"It was alleged that a cylinder bored in a mill would "egg out". "

No mention was made of a bored hole egging out. Honing is where you get the egging, if you don't use a Sunnen to maintain the radius in teh area where the cylinder is ported. Now, you are probably going to get chatter marks at the ports where the quill hammers in a Bridgeport, and you better be DAMNED sure the head is trammed to the bore of the cylinder. Lathe with a big boring bar is infinitely better than a flimsy turret mill for small single cylinders engines, but the SeaDoos are at least parallel twins.
 

Plaintoast

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Location
Minnesota
as someone who has both a van Norman 944 and a j head bridgeport and do this type of work all the time, i can confidently say, get the boring bar. yes, they are one trick ponies but they are infinitely better than a bridgeport for this type of work.
a bridgeport does have its uses for sure, even in an engine shop. i was just using mine today to bore holes for a torque plate, and it can be used for light surfacing but that's about it that I've found.
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
Did anybody see the gadget in the ebay add? It's definately not a 944 portable bar he's looking at. Looks more like a hot plate on a wood table top? Does that thing have any merit? I know it says Van Norman and all, but not what I was expecting before I looked.
 

Mike C.

Diamond
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
Birmingham, AL
That's a dedicated motorcycle or other small engine boring bar. The cylinder clamps to the bedplate and the boring bar (unusual, at least to me) comes up from the bottom. Still going to be a very accurate and stout piece of machinery.
 








 
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