Case hardening steel with sugar fact or fiction?

[spock]

I never heard that one, I just thought that the guy in question switched "carburize" with "carmelize".

 

[emlclcy]

can you case harden in old engine oil?

 

[MichaelP]

No. However, you can quench the metal and/or blacken its surface by using it.

 

[JNieman]

garrulous

Someone got the Word of the Day toilet paper for their birthday.

Nice one, though - I'll have to remember that one.



On topic:

Metal heat treatments are far from magic. I can understand people in the 1600s coming up with all manner of processes based upon experimentation and relying on nothing more than a single anecdote for proof. I cannot understand why, in this day and age, people think there's THIS ONE NEAT TRICK YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE! to heat treating common steels. It's a pretty simple recipe anyone can find, and it isn't TERRIBLY difficult, nor does it require special tools unless have to be able to predictably and reliably hit a +/- 1 HRC window every time.

I'd just stick with the traditional.

Of course, I don't know anyone that cared to heat treat an axe head. I just get one of those round sharpening stones and take care of the edge as needed. I think my stone is the Gransfors puck, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Motoxrrar]

Somehow I doubt the Joy Dish Soap hardened the metal without getting it hot first.
So what you were doing was quenching the metal in a liquid, which cooled it quickly.

My guess is that in that application, Chicken soup, or Maple syrup, or Jack Daniels would all make a difference in the rockwell.

Heck, along these same lines, there are always wannabe blacksmiths, who sit and play sword and sorcery games all day and have never even been in the same room with an anvil, who will swear to you on the Kaballah that if you quench a sword in the blood of a live human being, it will become so hard you can cut down streetlights with it. Supposed to work even better if you use a virgin....

Metallurgy is pretty well understood, and if you go to a site like Forum Index - - Powered by FusionBB you can find a lot of guys who will tell you exactly how to harden all kinds of alloys, without resorting to urban myths, ancient magic, or common food products.

I have been a Blacksmith now for a few years. Although my experience may be limited I have to say being a teachers aid has allowed myself the "pleasure" to meet those folks with a an interest in magic and myth.

I however am not one, and am pretty straight forward.

Can't stop laughing as you reminded me of these young boys and even older men that come to a blacksmithing course with sword-making intentions and undying knowledge of myth and folklore.

Thank you Ries for the comments to amuse and remember.

I will not be looking forward to the new students in my August class that I will have to be their dream crusher.

 

[Dresden]

Sportsman's Guide has Swedish army axes and hatchets $20.00

 

[Scottl]

Case harden an ax?????????

If the steel is that low carbon the best thing to do is throw it out and buy something better. Even one from HF should be better than that.

As for case hardening with sugar, although it is supposed to work I think oxygen has to be excluded and it takes some time.

Kasenit is no longer available for sale but Cherry Red is, and is used in a similar manner.

An ax should be a relatively soft temper compared to tools like chisels and plane blades or it could break off pieces and cause injury. The standard tool for sharpening is a mill file. If a mill file won't touch the edge it is too hard.

Good used axes aren't that hard to find and often show up in yard sales. It is better to fit a new handle to a cleaned up older quality head than to mess with junk. There are enough ways to get hurt with an ax without adding the risk of a fractured ax head. That cheap axe might have been cast instead of forged and the best thing to do is cast it (away).

 

[amdinc]

Kasenite is mainly yellow Prussiate of Soda or potassium ferrocyanide. That stuff they use in some of your food. They put it in table salt to keep it from clumping. One way to case harden steel is to cover it with cast iron filings and cook it in an oven at 1700 degrees for several hours. Also cast iron filings work as well as the stainless steel bags you use for heat treating when you don't want to decarborize your part. Just cover the part and use a longer soak time. The free carbon oxidizes and keeps the oxygen from getting to the part.

John

 

[quasi]

Back to the sugar:

In the book "The Great Escape" the British prisoners case hardned some of their hand made tools with sugar. Wheather it worked or not they must of thought it did.

Ernie

in reality, most of them were Canadians.