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Cheap version of Turcite, Rulon, etc.

Luke Rickert

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Location
OSLO
Given it is from igus it is actually probably quite good and far from cheap. Not sure how it would scrape but it is interesting.
L
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Manchester, England
I worked on re-building the bigger type of machine tools. We wouldn't use any plastic slide way material that was thinner than 1/8". Preferably a bit thicker if possible. Using material 0.020" thick would be pretty pointless on the machines I refer to. That tape would probably be ok for bench type machines but I'd be loathe to use it on production type machinery.

Other opinions are available.

Regards Tyrone.
 

Warren

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Location
Sutton, NH
I worked on re-building the bigger type of machine tools. We wouldn't use any plastic slide way material that was thinner than 1/8". Preferably a bit thicker if possible. Using material 0.020" thick would be pretty pointless on the machines I refer to. That tape would probably be ok for bench type machines but I'd be loathe to use it on production type machinery.

Other opinions are available.

Regards Tyrone.


Speaking of other opinions....I have heard others say us the thinnest plastic way material possible to avoid the plastic from acting like a spring and effecting rigidity. Not having any experience with either method I sure as hell do not know, but that seems to be a reasonable line of thinking. But so does yours Tyrone. One wonders where the answer is. Perhaps in some archaic research paper buried someplace in academia. Who knows perhaps even I am confusing the requirements of a large production machines with a toolroom lathe.
 

dalmatiangirl61

Titanium
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Location
BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
I've used JB weld for all sorts of non-tradidional repairs, is this thread encouraging me to promote those repairs? Call it what you want, but turcite and rulon are just nother names for JB weld type products......
 

ripperj

Stainless
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
I had to look it up
“Tribology is the science and engineering of interacting surfaces in relative motion. It includes the study and application of the principles of friction, lubrication and wear. Tribology is highly interdisciplinary in nature and draws upon several academic areas including: physics, chemistry, materials science and engineering.” From wiki


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

thermite

Diamond
Clearly you are clueless.........

"Good GRIEF!!!" level clueless, actually.

Not hard to learn about what is out there. Buggers that make and sell it all PUBLISH!

All manner of goods are made for all manner of applications.

Some of the key numbers have to do with how rapidly a surface of a given material can be slid over another surface at a given unit-loading and be expected to survive in-use.

Kinda hints to any seeker as bothers to READ whether he needs Oilite 16 against hard-Chrome, Scotch tape against Pine boards, or sumthin' somewhere in between, eh?

One does, of course, have to WANT to read-up...

:)
 

Derek Smalls

Stainless
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Location
Coventry RI
I've used JB weld for all sorts of non-tradidional repairs, is this thread encouraging me to promote those repairs? Call it what you want, but turcite and rulon are just nother names for JB weld type products......

Well, not really that far off the mark, they are all basically plastics. Rulon is chemically much more similar to JB Weld than it is to iron or bronze.
I personally don't like plastic ways on a machine tool. Good only for very light applications, or, situations where a sliding member is specifically designed to use it and has enough surface area to spread around forces so psi is kept very low.
I don't get how anything that compresses so easily and is so thermally unstable is what I should want on my machine's way surfaces. Sure it's much easier to work with than building surfaces up with metal, and maybe it's almost as good, but I'll not be doing it.
 

TGTool

Titanium
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Location
Stillwater, Oklahoma
I've got no ax to grind on whether one should or shouldn't use Turcite or something else in a machine application, but asserting something like "they're all plastics and don't belong" lumps everything together that's too broad to be useful. If it were true "all plastics .." could one then say it doesn't make any difference whether you call for this part to be cast iron or D-2, "they're both basically iron"?
 

thermite

Diamond
Well, not really that far off the mark, they are all basically plastics. Rulon is chemically much more similar to JB Weld than it is to iron or bronze.
I personally don't like plastic ways on a machine tool. Good only for very light applications, or, situations where a sliding member is specifically designed to use it and has enough surface area to spread around forces so psi is kept very low.
I don't get how anything that compresses so easily and is so thermally unstable is what I should want on my machine's way surfaces. Sure it's much easier to work with than building surfaces up with metal, and maybe it's almost as good, but I'll not be doing it.

Well there's the key. Surface area, unit loading, rate and frequency of traversals.
Also powered lube systems with shut-down-on fail monitoring OF them.

No problem AT ALL .. if a major maker of a massive machine engineers his product from the get-go to utilize a suitable "plastic". Some of them have way more included metals and such that they have plastic binder anyway.

"Problem" however, when the machine-tool under rebuild was NOT designed with so much area over which to spread the load. Cannot usually ADD area after the fact, and powered lube may also be a non-starter.

So.. a(ny) plastic "based" material to handle the area-short ways as ORIGINALLY expected hard metal on other, harder-yet metal, oil between?

Just MUST be engineered for that very type of application, loading, and the lube that came in the door with it.

Read, usually metals-infused plastics, correct choice OF that metal. And always costly.

As to "ease"? Metal build-up may take more hours of labour on the machine.
But fewer hours of labor to earn the price of.

Many of us - retiree/hobbyist, or revenoo shop, tight budget, alike, are "paying ourselves" to do this, after all.

We are not BEING paid by others and also under the gun to finish fast and hie of to do the NEXT machine for another customer.

Input as to "Professional" skill levels are useful and appreciated.

"Professional rebuilder" business models? Maybe not so much.

I know I'm too damned old to want go off and mow lawns to cover the cost of exotic plastics when a few bucks worth of Bronze will do as good a job.

Or even a BETTER job!
 

Ziggy2

Stainless
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Location
Northern Il
Well, not really that far off the mark, they are all basically plastics. Rulon is chemically much more similar to JB Weld than it is to iron or bronze.
I personally don't like plastic ways on a machine tool. Good only for very light applications, or, situations where a sliding member is specifically designed to use it and has enough surface area to spread around forces so psi is kept very low.
I don't get how anything that compresses so easily and is so thermally unstable is what I should want on my machine's way surfaces. Sure it's much easier to work with than building surfaces up with metal, and maybe it's almost as good, but I'll not be doing it.

Your argument is like saying that way oil is chemically similar to plastic as they are both made from crude oil. That is a very simplistic comparison to the point that it does not really hold up. It does not account for the formulation of the base material nor the other materials added to get the desired end material.

There are various grades of Rulon and Turcite just as there are various alloys of metals. Both Rulon an Turciteare actually composites. The composite formula determines the characteristics such as hardness and coefficient of friction.

As far as temperature stability, everything expands and contracts with temperature variation. Different materials have different coefficients of thermal expansion. It is not that difficult to compensate for the temperature variations and this is also why controlling the ambient air temperature and coolant temperature is important when doing high precision work.

I have not seen any quality or high quality box way machines built since the 80's that didn't use a composite way bearing material. Metal on metal slide surfaces are subject to scoring and wear at a much greater rate than a composite to metal bearing combination.

The composite materials-iron slides also have far superior bearing qualities then the old school iron-iron slide surfaces. This is true to the point that I would not buy a machine that still used metal to metal bearing surfaces as there would be no comparison in longevity and long term accuracy.

You are entitled to your opinion however I think it is based on some very incorrect assumptions.
 

DavidScott

Titanium
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Washington
Just to be clear this thread is a joke, but it does answer threads where the op was looking for a cheap alternative, such as nylon or polyethylene. This stuff comes in .5mm and 1 mm thicknesses either with or without self-adhesive backing. It costs somewhere around 20 cents a square inch, has a very high-quality self-adhesive, is available in cut lenghts of various widths, and is real easy to order online at Igus. For those who want a cheap plastic wear strip I think this is a viable option. I have some samples of .5mm self-adhesive and the level of quality is impressive. The 3" wide strip cut from a 20"? wide roll measured with my calipers holding the jaws together over the strip, to eliminate flex, the thickness is .0335 over it's entire area. Just a joke but it may work pretty well.
 

thermite

Diamond
Just to be clear this thread is a joke, but it does answer threads where the op was looking for a cheap alternative, such as nylon or polyethylene. This stuff comes in .5mm and 1 mm thicknesses either with or without self-adhesive backing. It costs somewhere around 20 cents a square inch, has a very high-quality self-adhesive, is available in cut lenghts of various widths, and is real easy to order online at Igus. For those who want a cheap plastic wear strip I think this is a viable option. I have some samples of .5mm self-adhesive and the level of quality is impressive. The 3" wide strip cut from a 20"? wide roll measured with my calipers holding the jaws together over the strip, to eliminate flex, the thickness is .0335 over it's entire area. Just a joke but it may work pretty well.

No joke at all on old, sticky, wooden furniture drawers!

May matter to we Chik'ns as it could benefit old Gerstner (type) wooden tool chests, too.

Just not such a hot idea for previously metal-oil-metal machine-tools with FAR higher unit-loading, is all.
 

John Garner

Titanium
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Location
south SF Bay area, California
Back in the late 1960s and 1970s, Devcon promoted their WR product line as usable to create a low-friction bearing surface, suitable for use in large machine-tool application. I don't recall if the disappearance of that particular suggested use happened before, or at the introduction of, Philadelphia Resin's Super Alloy low-friction "castable polymers" (today, Devcon and Philadelphia Resin are sister ITW companies). Either way, though, both the Devcon WR and Philadelphia Resin Super Alloy products are / were (I think the Super Alloy line is no longer offered) catalytic-curing polymers.

As are Diamant's Moglice and SKC's slideway coatings.

For whatever it's worth: A former coworker lined severely-worn journals in an antique iron casting with concoction of hobby-shop fluid epoxy thickened to ketchup-like consistency with powdered graphite and crumbs of fiber-reinforced-phenolic drill-chips that he mortar-and-pestled to coffee-grounds sizes. His repair -- which I thought would be, at best, a "Band Aid" -- was still going strong after a decade of now-and-then use in his Sierra cabin, when he retired. Ok, not J B Weld, but not that far away, either.
 

Derek Smalls

Stainless
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Location
Coventry RI
So to clear things up, I do realize there is a significant difference between JB Weld and rulon. The original statement made by dalmatiangirl61 I took to be a bit tongue in cheek, meaning that she was not a fan of replacing metallic way surfaces with plastics, that's certainly the way my comment was meant. Bill obviously got that, and explained my position pretty well in post #12.
I completely realize theses products have their place, and work well in the environment they are designed to be used in. BUT, I've used a few machine tools whose original design called for CI on steel, or CI on CI, but were built or re-built using roulon or moglice and I did not not think much of the result. The fact is, these plastics compress much more easily than the metal they replaced, giving the machine a kind of "squishy" feel, and far less rigidity than it originally had.
IF, this is taken into account during the design of a machine, obviously it can be worked around by an increase in area of contact, lessening the pressure per square inch to something the softer material can tolerate.
Simply replacing cast iron or steel with plastic does not work for me.
 








 
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