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Chinese insert vs American/Japanese?

JohannesL

Plastic
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Do you like Iscar? Most Iscar products are made in China now, with Warren Buffet collecting the 90% profit when Americans buy it.

I have never seen anything branded Iscar made in China. At least not lathe tooling, which is what I use.

Incerts are made in Israel.
Tool holder also made in Israel. 25/8/2021 date of manufacture.
Got some Iscar screws, made in Switzerland.

What Iscar tools are made in China? That you know of.

I'm not sure I would like it if they moved their production line there.
 

adammil1

Titanium
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Location
New Haven, CT
I have to wonder about Chinese inserts and if it's just plain old fashioned dumping. Here's the Tungsten production by country • Tungsten: production worldwide by country 2021 | Statista notice how most of it all comes from China. Wouldn't be too hard to cut domestic production deals that are unavailable anywhere else in the world so they can sell an insert for $0.75 when everyone else is at $7ea.

It seems like China's gameplan is usually in most industries to flood the world with the cheapest products, slowly increasing quality till it's as good as anyone else's without increasing costs. Then only once you put out the global competition do you finally raise prices. Makes me wonder if that's the case with their inserts?

They've got tons of manufacturing over there so some of those inserts must be good. The problem with China is lack of good brands so you can't tell good from bad and if you do find a good one how do you know you're getting the good and not a knock off. I wonder how the Chinese shop for their own stuff when they want quality. I hear ZCC is pretty good for China brands.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
 

taiwanluthiers

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Location
Xinjhuan District, New Taipei City
I wonder how the Chinese shop for their own stuff when they want quality.

Basically they choose WHERE they buy it carefully.

Platforms like Taobao does little to stamp out counterfeit items, but T-Mall (which is owned by the same company that owns Taobao) has strict policies regarding counterfeit, in that if the purchased item is found to be counterfeit the seller must reimburse the purchaser about 5 times the paid cost. Anyone selling on the platform must pay a deposit that will be used to reimburse the customer if the item is found to be counterfeit, and the seller may be prosecuted for this as well.

Another thing is for branded items like Nike, Adidas, iPhones, etc. they only buy at authorized dealers or platforms that have guarantees against counterfeits.

I suspect China is currently on the dumping phase. I've purchased many items that were very inexpensive but indistinguishable in quality from their American branded counterpart (that costs much more and are still made in China).
 

Orange Vise

Stainless
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Location
California
So recommend me a good insert that isn't Chinese made that is much better?

Sandvik, Tungaloy, Iscar, Mitsubishi... I could go on.

That I can buy by insert (not a whole box) because a single WNMG lasts a VERY long time...

Sounds like you're not machining a high quantity of parts nor removing a large amount of material, which might explain your viewpoint, and that is understandable.

But in a real production environment, where a 55-gallon drum fills up with dense, steel chips in less than a day, that 6-edge WNMG won't last a "VERY long time", even the high end ones. The difference between a Chinese insert and a good insert becomes very apparent.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I have done a lot of grinding and have used many wheels. I bought a China-made wheel, tried it..and then tossed it into the dumpster. Neve tried China carbide. Back when at the big shop and buying everybody's carbide China did not have any that I knew about. Iscar came from Israel, NTK came from Japan, and made really good ceramic inserts. Carboloy, Valenite, Sandvic and Vr Wesson were always knocking at my door.
 

taiwanluthiers

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Location
Xinjhuan District, New Taipei City
I don't do production, I might turn stuff for customers but a single WNMG will likely last me a very long time.

Anyways one update on my lathe is it comes with timing belts instead of gears to power the gearbox. It didn't come with any change gears so I found a supplier who sells them. They wanted something like 70 dollars for each one of them, with a total of about 300 dollars for all the missing change gears (these are necessary to cut metric threads).

I ended up finding timing pulleys from Taobao at much lower prices, like 20-30 RMB each for smaller ones and about 60 RMB, and then machining the center to match, and saved a bunch of money...
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
20-30 RMB Under $5 bucks us dollars.
60RBM under $9 bucks,

In the USA change gears often go from $100 to $200 for a full set for the likes of a Logan or South Bend lathe.


One problem with us buying China inserts is that we don't know the good ones from the poor ones.
We recognize the USA brand names and have learned to trust them.

QT:(Confederate States of America.) usually we say the United States of America.
 

scott-ak

Plastic
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
China does not "create" anything. They have an extractive form of government and economy. That means the government takes all profit. The result is there is no incentive to create. The only way they get technology is to steal it. Because they are stealing much of it from the USA, their products eventually become competitive in quality. Folks here think we get crap quality from China. You haven't seen nothing. We actually get their better products! The real crap goes to other Asian countries. I worked in some of them and products as simple as a paperclip from China and sold in Malaysia were complete junk. They barely held three sheets of paper together and were no good after one use.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
One youtube fellow says the CCP (China Communist party) has its nose into everything and is so full of corruption and under-the-table side money that almost everything comes slacking in quality.

At the China common people's level, everything is on the up and up or you better watch out for the government to put you in trouble.

In North Korea it is said, if you stick out your tongue at a government person's photo you might end up in the cooler.

We had friends from Cuba. They said if you talked bad about the Cuban government in a public place you might disappear. Yes, that was back in the 70s, so may not be the same today(?).

Yes the/our USA is leaning that way, we better be carfull what we ask for.

In a perfect world, communism would be perfect, but it seems to never work out that way except for the very high-up government people.

Even my grandson at 21 years old and a college graduate, heading for dental school, a very smart kid is now thinking fascism is good.
 

Joe Henderson

Aluminum
Joined
May 21, 2006
Location
Blooming Grove, Texas
A great long while back I went to see my doctor for a yearly checkup. He spent the customary fifteen minutes looking, feeling and listening and pronounced me ok. I mentioned something about obamacare being nuts. He said well that's a matter of opinion. Sullivan down the hall is a specialist and that's where the money is. I make $60 per patient and he makes a lot more. Obamacare will level the playing field for a lot of us doctors.
So you spend fifteen minutes per patient and see what, probably 50+ per day for $60 a pop and you're pissed off because they don't pay you the same money for sticking your finger up my ass as they do for him performing surgery the patient needs?
 








 
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