Comments from Phase Perfect owners

[Captdave]

Been considering getting rid of my rotary phase converter and upgrading to a phase perfect. The two machines that run all day are a Mazak QT-8 10HP and a Hurco VM10 15 HP, the Bridgeport and a small 5hp gang tool lathe are used from time to time when I'm not using the Hurco.

I've been using a 20HP rotary converter on a 100 AMP breaker for the past 5 years and she's done a good job but lately have had a couple of the main fuses blow in the Hurco and recently had a board blow in the spindle drive (yaskawa F7) last code recorded was a DC buss over voltage.

Do the Phase perfects live up to all their hype of being near perfect to utility 3 phase and are you please with the product and service? Any other comments are welcome.

 

[matt_isserstedt]

I'm sort of in the "breakin" period but it works very well from what I can tell. I run roughly 12 machines on this, 1 CNC Fadal and the rest manual machines, one at a time right now, it works great. I ran all the other manual machines on RPC power previously, but I got it for peace of mind with the CNC and its spindle and servo drives.

The company was very easy to deal with, shipping was thru Fedex Freight who were surprisingly very careful with it from what I could tell.

What I would change is that it has a mildly irritating VFD type buzz to it, although I am getting more and more used to it. The fans on the CNC drown it out, but it sort of breaks the peace when running a manual machine. I would have relocated it out of my main shop or in some sort of an enclosure (cabinet etc) if I had to do it over again. For now I have so much work into the conduits & wiring its just going to have to stay there

 

[Philabuster]

The purchase price is 3x the cost of a rotary, but the PP will behave exactly like the utility power in that it will suck up regenerative braking from a CNC whereas a rotary will not. Also, being that the PP is much more efficient at supplying the 3Ø power, this helps when you are pushing the limit of your 200 amp service.

I plan to buy the 30hp model, but the VFD whine is a real issue as Matt said for placement of the unit. Do I put it inside and deal with the whine, or do I put it outside (with optional rain enclosure) and RISK pissing off my close neighbors with this 'strange noise' coming from my yard?

 

[rpgdeity]

I started out with a 10HP rotary powering a couple of old NC machines. When I got into CNC's I purchased a 60HP PP unit. I have had it in service for almost a year now, never had one single issue with it.

Mine is inside, it makes a soft "buzzing" noise, but honestly the cooling fans that kick on now and then are louder than the buzz, lol. I can't hear it make any noise over the CNC's running.

I'd highly recommend the units, very happy with mine so far.

 

[Toolznthings]

Hi,
Best thing I've bought for my shop. Using for three years now. It's good to be old sometimes, my hearing does not pick up the " buzz "

 

[sfriedberg]

I have one of the older style 10HP PhasePerfects, a DPC-A10. It works extremely well for me, although I only run one 7.5HP or 10HP machine at a time. The only operational issue I have had is once when repeatedly jogging a 7.5HP lathe a few dozen times, the built-in PP protection tripped. And that's what should have happened, really.

As a non-operational annoyance, I can't stand the sound it makes when running. Since I didn't blow out my eardrums at rock concerts, I can clearly hear the 10KHz and harmonics (in fact, until recently I could hear the 15.7KHz horizontal refresh of a old-school television). The fans kick in (briefly) at about 80dB, and the normal running sound is only at 50dB (either SPL-A or -C weighted) but because it's a dentist-drill sound it's too much for my nerves. True story: the first time I powered up the PP, I thought there was a piezo alarm buzzer going off signalling some kind of fault. But that's just the sound it makes when running. I used to wear ear muffs all the time to block it out, but I ended up making an acoustic enclosure lined with mineral wool that kills all the high-freq screeching.

The current/newer models sound different from the one I have, and if you can't hear bats you'll probably never hear anything but the fans (which run at startup and on demand).

 

[Philabuster]

I used to wear ear muffs all the time to block it out, but I ended up making an acoustic enclosure lined with mineral wool that kills all the high-freq screeching.

The current/newer models sound different from the one I have, and if you can't hear bats you'll probably never hear anything but the fans (which run at startup and on demand).

I will be buying a new model (used PPs are extremely rare so I quit looking), but I was concerned about the unit heating up too much if I added an acoustic enclosure. High Freq noise drives me batshit crazy. I think I probably need to mount the unit inside to keep my neighbors happy and figure how to dampen the noise without killing the machine.

 

[Bruce Griffing]

I am also a happy PP owner for ~6 years now. I would also support noise being the only issue. I am thinking about relocating the unit outside for the same reasons mentioned above. Outside, I don't think it would be a neighborhood noise issue. I may sell my 10hp unit and upgrade to a 20hp unit when I finally get around to moving it.

 

[SND]

It's a must have, you're gonna wonder why you went that long without one. I have both the older style 10hp size and the newer 20hp one for the cnc/compressor. 10hp does the manual machines. I prefer the sound of the newer units, doesn't get into your brain as much. It's not loud, just a high pitch and the building I'm in is so sound proof that it stays in the shop. I didn't notice it nearly as much when I was in the basement at the other house standing 5' from it all day. But yeah, no hesitation its the best money you can spend for 3ph out of 1ph. Which reminds me I should get rid of the 7.5hp rotary the PP replaced a few months after I had gotten that.
It'll save electricity from plain heat loss vs rotary and also allows you to get a lot more out of your incoming power.

Here's the noise difference. phase perfect 10 and 20hp - YouTube

 

[matt_isserstedt]

I plan to buy the 30hp model, but the VFD whine is a real issue as Matt said for placement of the unit. Do I put it inside and deal with the whine, or do I put it outside (with optional rain enclosure) and RISK pissing off my close neighbors with this 'strange noise' coming from my yard?

Its definitely "less loud" than a standard residential AC condensor unit...sooooo....maybe get a scrapped unit for the outside tin, install it on a nice pad outside, liquid tight going in and out...sort of a disguise if you will Knowing my luck, ants (or something worse) would find it desirable...then again after some more thought you don't want any meth heads tampering with your super expensive "AC unit".....

 

[JP Machining]

Have two 20hp old blue units for several years now. Work great and I only hear the buzz when I start the units up, after turning on a machine I can't hear it anymore from just a small cabinet fan running. Would like to replace them someday with a 40 hp unit and be able to but a bit larger load on but for now they have been working great.

 

[Rich L]

I've had a 10HP model for year now (still have a rotary in another shop) and I love it. The buzz doesn't bother me as it's quiet enough that I can easily have a conversation. I can't imagine the buzz bothering a neighbor but perhaps the upper HP versions are a little louder. The fans rarely come on even on 100º days and the CNC fans certainly overwhelm it. I had a couple of questions during installation for customer service and the gentleman was responsive and helpful and they answered the phone.

I'd get another if I needed one.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Philabuster]

Its definitely "less loud" than a standard residential AC condensor unit...sooooo....maybe get a scrapped unit for the outside tin, install it on a nice pad outside, liquid tight going in and out...sort of a disguise if you will Knowing my luck, ants (or something worse) would find it desirable...then again after some more thought you don't want any meth heads tampering with your super expensive "AC unit".....

I never thought about that. I will turn on the shop A/C unit and check how loud it sounds. The shop is so well insulated I seldom use the A/C.

A second 'dummy' A/C unit might just be the ticket. Thanks for the idea.

One more question though, does the high freq noise from the PP change with machine loading or is it the same even if no load?

I know the fans come on as needed and sound louder, but the main concern is the high freq noise. If the noise is same at all load levels, perhaps I could wire it up with a 240v extension cord (leave 3Ø side disconnected) to check PP noise without having to redo the 2/0 wire it will have on finish install.

 

[JP Machining]

It stays constant. Some people can't even hear it, others won't notice it till you point it out to them.

 

[Captdave]

Consensus says great product despite the high price tag. I did speak briefly last week with one of their application engineers and he said that they are currently 3 weeks for delivery on any of their products but did say that they could expedite one for a 10% premium.

 

[SND]

I bought both of mine through american rotary, but I'm not sure if they were stocking them there or not.

 

[Captdave]

They didn't have either the 20 or 30 HP in stock.

 

[SND]

I wonder if that's a sign of many many more home shops popping up everywhere.

 

[Captdave]

I wonder if that's a sign of many many more home shops popping up everywhere.

I was thinking the same with the overall economy shrinking there may very well be more shops down sizing into smaller spaces without 3P as well as new home shops.

 

[matt_isserstedt]

It stays constant. Some people can't even hear it, others won't notice it till you point it out to them.

My 70yo Dad cant hear it at all

Also was thinking that wherever you move your shop (to reduce overhead or for whatever reason) you can literally take the 3ph into any facility, whether it be residential or commercial, not have to keep paying for that type of electric service or negotiate it into a lease.