Concrete Lathe Stand

[RDurrant]

Wanted to throw out this idea (not my own) and see what information might be had by the gunsmith machinist community.

I recently moved to Texas from Utah. Kind of a big mistake as now I don’t have access to any land to go shoot or hunt. But I digress.

I have a Standard Modern 11" x 34" Series 2000. Just before I moved I bought it for a deal I just couldn’t pass up (free). I never really used it because the foot it was attached to was just some old pipe stand. Not very rigid. I tossed the stand in Utah before I moved.

That being said, I need a stand.
I read a while ago about a guy that was thinking about mounting his lathe on a set of poured concrete pillars as a stand. I thought it was a good idea but for the possibility of the shrinkage of the concrete over time. Thought maybe using cinder blocks filled with concrete and rebar might work a little better. Don’t really know.

My idea of the stand is this: Pour a wider base than the top for stability using reinforced concrete. Seal it with some type of concrete sealer or concrete paint. Construct a thick steel mount pad to epoxy to the top of the concrete mount at each end of the lathe bed, allowing me to shim the bed level etc. and bolt it solid to the concrete stand.

Feel free to comment on this project, all ideas are welcome......Thanks

 

[MarinePMI]

Not sure about you idea, but maybe using a 4" dia pipe, filled with concrete and a plate welded to both ends would work(?).

I know on the smaller (miicro) lathes, this is how they increase the rigidity of the beds...

 

[Hdpg]

I think there is nothing wrong with this idea, especially if you don't have the facilities to weld up a good steel stand. You had better make sure you are really sure you choose the correct long term location because I doubt you are going to pick this stand up and move it around. Also you should consider the weight of the concrete stand itself although if the base is larger than the top the weight will be will distributed so even if it is on a thin slab it should be fine. The steel pad idea is with epoxy and bolts will give a really good mounting. If two pads are used one at each end of the lathe it may be wise to periodically unbolt it and see if re-shimming is needed as these pads could move relative to each other as the concrete ages.

 

[garyphansen]

During WWII they needed a lot of small parts from anywhere they could get them. The government published plans to make a concrete bench for small lathes so Mom and Pop could make parts for the Army in their basements. The concrete benches made the small lathes more accurate. Sorry, I do not have a source for the plans, but may be someone in the South Bend section knows where you can find a reprint. Gary P. Hansen

 

[Peter.]

You don't have to worry about the concrete shrinking once it's cured. I think it's a good idea.

 

[peterh5322]

While not restricted to Monarchs, and certainly not required for Monarchs made after, say, 1936, this technique has been posted as a "sticky" to the Monarch Forum, of which I am the Moderator, using as its source a narrative description supplied by Carla, based upon her recollections of the War Production Board (WPB) circular.

I have searched through the archives of the numerous public "Morrill Land Grant" colleges and universities, including South Bend Lathe's home-state Land Grant institution, Purdue U, and have come up empty-handed.

However, Carla's description, based upon her former ownership of a copy of the WPB circular, since discarded by her, is about a complete as the original, in my estimation.

To access that sticky, go: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/not-monarch-but-useful-166280.html

 

[Eagle_view]

We built a Hollow Concrete stand for my mil/drill. It sure helped that machine work better.

We used an inside and outside plywood form with about 4" space alround. Usingpipe and rebar we were able to reinforce the stand and keep it the form in place.

The stand is tapered on three sides from the floor up so it is very solid. we poured it standing up and troweled the top level.

It took 10 sacks of pre-mix to fill it. It has been well worth the effort. We have moved it twice but with an engine hoist and roll pipes it is not too hard to move.

We bolt the Mill/Drill to the top and it sure makes a difference on what and how well we can cut.

 

[RDurrant]

You guys are great!

The more I think about this the more I want to do it, and the information you all have given me is wonderful.

Thank you, all

 

[ahall]

I think the idea of a concrete stand is probably a good one for a small lathe.

I would have a few design considerations.-

1. Bases should be flat, with threaded bosses for jack screws. - Flat bottoms roll on pipes and jack screws make it alot easier to get the base off of pipes. Lifting eyes are also a good idea.

2. The base should have good torsional stiffness in the axis of the lathe bed. The cutting action of a lathe produces forces that want to twist the bed around the spindle. The base should help resist this. Open shapes, like C channels are not very stiff in torsion. Closed shapes, like pipes are. Think about cross section of the part as a tool for making soap bubbles, the bigger your soap bubble the better the torsional stiffness. When you have a flat surface, like a table, diagonal braces from corner to corner add a lot of torsional stiffnes.

3. Mass kills vibration. Bolt the machine down solid. The basic idea is simple. Nothing is perfecly balanced, but the center of mass of the system does not want to move. So when the center of mass of what your spinning moves one direction, the center of mass for everything its bolted to moves the other way. Because the center of MASS wants to stay the same, it takes a lot of movement in a small spinning part to move the big part its attached to. The bigger and stiffer the base is, the less it will move from vibrations within the machine.

4. Put an electrical outlet and place to mount a work light on the base.

5. A place to mount a tool rack for cutters, mikes, T wrenches, ect is also nice.

6. Think about chip clean up and containing oil drips in the design.

 

[Eagle_view]

I wished that we had taken time to finish the outside of the concrete stand we built for the Mill/drill with an epoxy finish like they use for garage floors, clean-up would have been easier.

 

[adama]

Its one of the things i like about my harrison 11" lathe. the cabinet stand its on is 1/4" plate and weighs more than the lathe. The older versions had a cast iron cabinet stand. It makes a significant diffrence to more lightly mounted lathes i have used. Sitting a simililar sized lathe on a solid concrete block would undowtably improve it a lot more. Just be a bit heavy to move around

 

[BWS]

Years ago did all the millwork for the sanctuary of a local Catholic church,during which they had me build their......can't think of the technical term....we called it the dunking pool.Its where baby's get sprinkled w/Holy water.Looking in "plan" view it was like a 4 leaf clover,but with squared corners between the loops.It was poured concrete.The walls were 4" thick that held the shape throughout.Had a 4" floor cast in about 1/3 or so up from floor.Overall about 34" or so tall.Turned out perfect and has been in use yada,yada.The point being,you can form/pour whatever shape and specs you want.It dosn't have to be solid and it can even bolt together if needed.Its actually pretty fun building the forms.BWS

 

[ArmySGT.]

Years ago did all the millwork for the sanctuary of a local Catholic church,during which they had me build their......can't think of the technical term....we called it the dunking pool.Its where baby's get sprinkled w/Holy water.Looking in "plan" view it was like a 4 leaf clover,but with squared corners between the loops.It was poured concrete.The walls were 4" thick that held the shape throughout.Had a 4" floor cast in about 1/3 or so up from floor.Overall about 34" or so tall.Turned out perfect and has been in use yada,yada.The point being,you can form/pour whatever shape and specs you want.It dosn't have to be solid and it can even bolt together if needed.Its actually pretty fun building the forms.BWS

Baptismal Fount.

 

[Racer Al]

ahall has described fairly accurately what I have done to my chinese POS mini-lathe. Along with a large number of other mods (scraped in per Connolly), bronze gibs, steel change gears, tapered roller headstock bearings, it's actually not so bad.

The base is an 8" square steel box (actually diamond plate, which I had surplus to my needs) filled with concrete, and incorporates not only feet, but also handles to move the thing. The base more than tripled the weight.

My only other suggestion is that your base should include a set of steel lugs or bars which you can drill & tap for accessories.

 

[alan c]

concrete

Hello, my 2 cents worth. I would skip the concrete blocks in favor of sauna tube. It is a cardboard form you can get at home depot and others. dowel into the floor a inch or so to reduce movement. use at least a 12 diameter tube. place 2 foundation bolts into the concete after you pour. use a 6 sack mix for extra strength. I would drop in at least 3 - 1/2 rebar int the tubes. you might think about bolting a 3/16 or thicker plate across the top to create a chip pan, and this would tie the 2 collums together. this plate could be shimed and leveled prior to bolting. good luck and post us some pics. Alan C

 

[RDurrant]

I have done a little more research into the possibilities of this project. It's limited to imagination mostly. I’ve gone from wondering what I was going to do for a stand, to how much stuff I want to attach. I’m a simple kind of guy, but I take great pleasure in things well done and well thought out. This machine is in very good shape and with a good solid base will be a great machine for my gun work. I'll send some pictures of the end product.
Just want to thank you all for your great input......everyone.

 

[Eagle_view]

Here is a photo of my Mill drill on a concrete stand. We have been pretty busy today so thing look a little messy.

Lowell

 

[willbird]

I think I would make sure to figuire out ahead of time a way to place some cartridge heaters in the poured mass, probably make thermowells for them actually. This will enable you to heat the concrete(and in turn the machine as well) a few degrees above ambient and prevent sweating in humid weather.

Bill

 

[Racer Al]

If anyone is tempted to do a google search for the cardboard forms, the above post is spelled wrong. It's a good idea, and you can cut holes in the tube to cast anchors/feet/whatever into it.

http://www.sonotube.com/