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Could your shop make artillery rounds?

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What is so expensive in a 155mm artillery round
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When I was an artillery officer we used to joke "Green paint is very expensive". Not sure of the current price but in the 1980s a .50 cal round was $3 each so $6000 today sounds like a good deal. If you really want expensive you should see the prices of the red painted parts used by a nuke unit.
 
Pretty sure that’s the goal of all things purchased by the military.

Currently shooting down $10k-20k drones with multi million dollar missiles…
True that does seem out of proportion but what is the cost of not shooting them down and they hit their target, it gets out of proportion in the other direction real quick . The Ukrainians are destroying multi million dollar pieces with one thousand dollar drones . Just the cost of doing business these days.
 
Didn't bother to read all 44 pages and all the political discussion 😀

My shop couldn't make shells, but there are others over here who do make plenty of them. (I'm not related to the company or the news site linked.)

Very rare to see this kind of publicity from a munitions factory, maybe they wish to attract more skilled workers to meet the demand, and also assure citizens that they're seriously pushing out some shells..

(Finnish, but try google translate or just see the pics. Translation in short, they're going to upscale production up to fivefold from last year. Also they're modernizing their machining line)
 
@JH-Q
Thanks for the link, interesting material, interesting photos. The translator worked :)
After reading this material, the following thought came to me. Ukraine, in a good scenario, needs about 5 million 155mm shells per year. This is a rough estimate, but it will do for a general understanding. Let's say the US gives half and the EU gives half. This means that the EU needs to produce 2,500,000 shells for Ukraine in a year. But the EU countries need to replenish their own reserves, which are simply catastrophically low! Some of the shells from the stockpile were sent to Ukraine, but even at the beginning of the war the level of shell stockpiles was at a terribly low level. I think it can be accepted that the EU needs to produce another 2-3 million shells a year for itself. Total - about 5-6 million shells, let's accept the estimate of 6 million.
If we divide this amount in proportion to GDP between EU countries, it turns out that Finland needs to produce about 6.000.000 / (19.3 trillion (EU GDP) / 0.268 trillion (Finnish GDP in 2022)) = 83.000 shells per year, 6.916 pieces per month or 226 per day.
Judging by the photo, it seems that if they really increase productivity several times, the final productivity will be even higher than these figures.
Unfortunately, my impression is that the rest of the EU countries are doing little to achieve the required productivity figures.
 
Several articles yesterday about how the first production line at the new plant in Mesquite Texas is finally ready to begin production of 155mm shells. General Dynamics Is building a half billion dollar factory, which includes 3 parallel production lines.
Interestingly enough, the whole line is based on a flow forming system from the Turkish company Repkon.
Almost all robotic, no forges or hydraulic presses from the early 20 th century.
Turkish subbcontractors are almost done installing line 1.

No US company with the manufacturing experience to have a process like this ready, proven, and delivered in less than a year.

Repkon https://www.repkon.com.tr/en/production-lines/defence

Some photos in these two articles


 
I read about a study from ww2 comparing usa, British and Soviet mortar rounds. USA and Britain were proper forged shells. The soviet ones were simple easy to make cast iron. Equal amounts of the same explosive, etc. etc. The USA testing grounds had assumed the harder to make forged shells were better. Turns out the cast iron was more than strong enough to take the launch forces But they. shattered when the explosive detonated and produced far more small shrapnel pieces so were more effective at killing people. The forged shell split into just a few pieces and that made it more likely to miss guys standing nearby.
If a big hunk misses you by 1/4" no damage. Kinda like a shotgun vs rifle. Harder to miss with a shotgun.
Of course there is no way a cast iron shell would be strong enough to shoot 75 miles like these modern ATCM artillery. cast iron would shatter before it left the barrel.
Bill D
 
Several articles yesterday about how the first production line at the new plant in Mesquite Texas is finally ready to begin production of 155mm shells. General Dynamics Is building a half billion dollar factory, which includes 3 parallel production lines.
Interestingly enough, the whole line is based on a flow forming system from the Turkish company Repkon.
Almost all robotic, no forges or hydraulic presses from the early 20 th century.
Turkish subbcontractors are almost done installing line 1.

No US company with the manufacturing experience to have a process like this ready, proven, and delivered in less than a year.

Repkon https://www.repkon.com.tr/en/production-lines/defence

Some photos in these two articles


"No US company with the manufacturing experience to have a process like this ready, proven, and delivered in less than a year."

Really?-----Make note General Dymanics who will operate the Mequite facility already manages other U.S. based artillery and ordnance facilities so maybe the DOD should look to a Turk company to run it's production facilities if a U.S. company can't.
From the link:
".........even in the best-case scenario, I would say those late-2025 output targets will arrive late in this war, and it is likely that Russian artillery output will still be higher than the U.S. and Europe combined at that point.” (emphasis added)
 
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"No US company with the manufacturing experience to have a process like this ready, proven, and delivered in less than a year."

Really?-----Make note General Dymanics who will operate the Mequite facility already manages other U.S. based artillery and ordnance facilities so maybe the DOD should look to a Turk company to run it's production facilities if a U.S. company can't.
From the link:
".........even in the best-case scenario, I would say those late-2025 output targets will arrive late in this war, and it is likely that Russian artillery output will still be higher than the U.S. and Europe combined at that point.” (emphasis added)
GD bought the manufacturing equipment from Turkey. Repkon, in Turkey, has been developing the flow forming process for 40 years now. They have finished installing the first line within something like a year or so from order.
GD can run the factories, but they dont manufacture the cnc machines that make the shells.
They estimate that when all 3 lines are done, 30% of all US production will be done on Turkish machinery.

The turks are already some of the largest manufacturers of artillery shells in the world.
The Turks are probably the largest manufacturer of US military artillery shells already- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ukraine-s-ammunition-supply-amid-russia-s-war

The reason we bought the machinery from Repkon is so we dont have to risk buying so many of our shells from them, and we can make them here.

None of that changes the fact that the Turks, who have 2000 year history of metalworking, are more advanced in making this exact equipment, and that its a much more efficient and modern way of doing it than the 100 year old tech of the PA plant.
Turkish companies currently manufacture and export more plate rolls, cnc press brakes, ironworkers, and other fab and sheet metal equipment than pretty much anybody.
They make a lot of CNC machinery, and its reasonably priced, durable, and long lasting.
I have a very dumb set of power plate rolls in my shop I bought over 20 years ago, from Turkey, they were the cheapest, and are rock solid and just keep working, with no repair issues.

Russia may outproduce us numerically, but their processes are 100 years old, their quality sucks, and they mostly make pretty dumb shells. Current US tech is much more advanced, with the variety of shells we make. And our QC is much better.
Stalin was the guy who they claim said- "Quantity has a quality all its own". Russia still believes in throwing incredible amounts of bodies, bullets, and dumb shells at a target.
 
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GD bought the manufacturing equipment from Turkey. Repkon, in Turkey, has been developing the flow forming process for 40 years now. They have finished installing the first line within something like a year or so from order.
GD can run the factories, but they dont manufacture the cnc machines that make the shells.

The turks are already some of the largest manufacturers of artillery shells in the world.
The Turks are probably the largest manufacturer of US military artillery shells already- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ukraine-s-ammunition-supply-amid-russia-s-war

The reason we bought the machinery from Repkon is so we dont have to risk buying so many of our shells from them, and we can make them here.

None of that changes the fact that the Turks, who have 2000 year history of metalworking, are more advanced in making this exact equipment, and that its a much more efficient and modern way of doing it than the 100 year old tech of the PA plant.
Turkish companies currently manufacture and export more plate rolls, cnc press brakes, ironworkers, and other fab and sheet metal equipment than pretty much anybody.
They make a lot of CNC machinery, and its reasonably priced, durable, and long lasting.
I have a very dumb set of power plate rolls in my shop I bought over 20 years ago, from Turkey, they were the cheapest, and are rock solid and just keep working, with no repair issues.
You sold me....The Turks should be given the contract to run ALL ordnance production in the United States---Cut out the 'middle man' General Dynamics.
Turk Pres. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey appears to have his shit together when it comes to making his country a leader metal working and manufacturing rather than our leaders relying on a 100 year old factory in Pennsylvania.
 
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You sold me....The Turks should be given the contract to run ALL ordnance production in the United States---Cut out the 'middle man' General Dynamics.
Turk Pres. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey appears to have his shit together when it comes to making his country a leader metal working and manufacturing rather than our leaders relying on a 100 year old factory in Pennsylvania.
who would YOU be buying the machines from?
I would prefer there were US factories, sure.
I have met some really great individual Turks, but their government stinks. They make cool machines. Why dont we?
 
who would YOU be buying the machines from?
I would prefer there were US factories, sure.
I have met some really great individual Turks, but their government stinks. They make cool machines. Why dont we?

I guess your assuming we don't make the machines required.....who knows. Like most things the U.S. has no problem buying from countries who's manufacturing process is in conflict with our own environmental laws.
"I have met some really great individual.....(fill in race, gender, country)"....yeah goes for most all of us---maybe even the citizens of a country we now are fixing to hurl more death and destruction their way.
 
I guess your assuming we don't make the machines required.....who knows. Like most things the U.S. has no problem buying from countries who's manufacturing process is in conflict with our own environmental laws.
"I have met some really great individual.....(fill in race, gender, country)"....yeah goes for most all of us---maybe even the citizens of a country we now are fixing to hurl more death and destruction their way.
I have been self employed since 1978. That means I have been the one deciding which machines to buy. I do the research, write the checks, and fix em when they break.
And I find that in a lot of categories, there are NO US options.
I dont buy million dollar cnc flow forming machines, but my guess is that there are very few choices, globally, and my guess is that the Turks were the only choice for a company that had built them to make artillery shells, as opposed to some other product with completely different requirements.
I have, in my shop, machines from the USA, Germany, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Taiwan, Japan, and one from Mainland China. In most cases, my US machines are from companies that either dont exist anymore, or have moved production offshore.
It would be great if I could have bought all US made machines, but often, there were zero options.
My guess is that Defense contracts lean towards US content, and GD would have bought US if possible, but this is a pretty amazingly quick lead time for very specific machinery.
Somebody (ie the taxpayers) has to invest in this type of factory, and US private capital has not been interested in doing so for decades. And so, we buy 30% of our shells from Turkey, and the machines to make our own from Turkey.
 
I have been self employed since 1978. That means I have been the one deciding which machines to buy. I do the research, write the checks, and fix em when they break.
And I find that in a lot of categories, there are NO US options.
I dont buy million dollar cnc flow forming machines, but my guess is that there are very few choices, globally, and my guess is that the Turks were the only choice for a company that had built them to make artillery shells, as opposed to some other product with completely different requirements.
I have, in my shop, machines from the USA, Germany, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Taiwan, Japan, and one from Mainland China. In most cases, my US machines are from companies that either dont exist anymore, or have moved production offshore.
It would be great if I could have bought all US made machines, but often, there were zero options.
My guess is that Defense contracts lean towards US content, and GD would have bought US if possible, but this is a pretty amazingly quick lead time for very specific machinery.
Somebody (ie the taxpayers) has to invest in this type of factory, and US private capital has not been interested in doing so for decades. And so, we buy 30% of our shells from Turkey, and the machines to make our own from Turkey.
Might be a case of Turkey not wanting to piss off the Russians and the decision was made to make the shells here and isolate the Turks. Considering the short lead time on setting up the plant might be case of transferring an existing machine line.

The Texas facility is dedicated to Ukraine production, at least according to one article, so why not just put the plant in Ukraine, Poland and some other neighboring NATO country? Sure would save on shipping costs. There must be more to the story---unless I'm wrong---which is likely the case.

In any event it's a couple of hundred jobs going to Texas and the equipment is bought and paid for so the taxpayers are getting something out of it and DOD can always move it someplace else if need be.
 
If I could... and I can't. Never will be. Even if I were, no way I'd get involved in this.

I'm pretty much a hard core gun guy ... but ... all this hard core political big money BS ...

I'd slit my wrists before I contributed anything to this insanity.

Most intelligent man in my recent memories... Rodney King after the riots ...

'Why can't we just get along'
 
If I could... and I can't. Never will be. Even if I were, no way I'd get involved in this.

I'm pretty much a hard core gun guy ... but ... all this hard core political big money BS ...

I'd slit my wrists before I contributed anything to this insanity.

Most intelligent man in my recent memories... Rodney King after the riots ...

'Why can't we just get along'
 








 
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