Could your shop make artillery rounds?

[Bill D]

I read that Ukraine has renounced claims to the Kuril islands claimed by Japan and russia. They feel the islands should be Japanese territory. Not clear if russia or Ukraine and other USSR splitofff counteries have legal claims to the territory of the ex USSR and UN seats.
Also unclear about Krongsberg territorial relationship.
BilL D

 

[ghost of christmas past]

You guys better not trash talk about president Xi of China.. He is so perfect a dear leader that they changed the rules to make him president for life.

FDR was elected four times too. Do you run and hide under the bed when his name is mentioned too, like you do over a pudgy chinese guy ?

 

[Bill D]

I have never seen him in real life but Xi does not look overweight to me. You can say in China and Congo we see unaltered photos and he is fat fat fat.
Now you will tell me that North Korea is part of China too. or do you think rocket boy is the actual leader of China?
Has putin allowed unaltered photos and paintings of Lenin to be seen? Under Communisim all photos, sculptures, and statues had his eyes airbrushed to look "western".

Bill D.

 

[standardparts]

Maybe for investment purposes one should look to less at regulated military industries and do some due diligence on Euro construction companies.

Producing artillery munitions most certainly is resulting in epic levels of destruction.
Of course when the need for artillery ends, the need for rebuilding begins.
Wonder if there has been any thought to those producing objects of destruction to also invest and prepare for rebuilding?
(the link is from 7/2022 so no doubt the numbers are much higher) The article says seized Russian assets will pay for it but since stated US/EU policy is to collapse the Russian economy how does one get money from a bankrupt entity?

Hundreds of Polish companies sign up for scheme to rebuild Ukraine after war

"Russia is responsible for the destruction [so] Russia should pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine," says a Polish deputy minister.

notesfrompoland.com

 

[Milland]

This whole thing is mentally-retarded. You want to contribute ? Go ahead. But quit spending US taxpayer money on stupid, pointless shit.

I did. And I guess you didn't get the memo that it's a collective here, we're quite communistic when it comes to the COMMON defense of the country. And that's what we're doing in Ukraine - we're defending OUR country, in the cheapest possible way.

Now run off and write your party leader at the Mouvement Congolais pour la Démocratie et le Développement Intégral and tell him how you want none of YOUR tax dollars to go to Ukraine's defense. I'm sure he'll listen...

 

[DDoug]

"Could your shop make artillery rounds?"

For which side ?

Both ? sure no problem-o, how much gold ya gotts.

 

[ghost of christmas past]

~~~~~Mod Delete - Personal Attack——-

 

[standardparts]

"Could your shop make artillery rounds?"

For which side ?

Both ? sure no problem-o, how much gold ya gotts.

Sell to both sides....Yeah. That was Sam Cummins business model.
"will gladly sell to either side in a war. Rebels or dictators, East or West, it makes no difference"
Of course now-a-days arms sales are pretty much direct from gov't stores--no middleman.
Actually Cummins' book is a pretty good read.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/entertainment/books/1983/12/18/arms-and-the-man/48b53ce6-1fc5-45a8-96d9-9207ebd0cb23/

 

[BT Fabrication]

Local Shop I build things for builds the shell casings, very cool to see things that are destined to blow up that also stand 4' tall and 4-6" around

 

[ghost of christmas past]

~~~~~Mod Delete - Personal Attack——-

Bullshit. It was no such thing, there were no mean words or personal slanders involved, I ridiculed Mllands's statements without saying anything out of line about he himself. Mr Jaguar here just censors anyone whom he doesn't like, especially when they print an uncomfortable truth. TOTAL bullshit, here in the land of the free and home of the brave.

Which is how it is, I'm not going to cry over shitty moderation but let's have it known that Jaguar36 is not honest.

~~~~~~~Mod Edit - Personal attack on another member deleted, Feel free to insult me, but insulting other members is not allowed.~~~~~~~~~~~~

Right.

This person is an expletive deleted. And that's a fact.

 

[Milland]

(As you can see for yourself by looking at Milland's obviously personal and untruthful smear, which a certain leaky rectum left in place).

What's all this then? An attack on my favorite moderator?!? I'll hear nothing of the sort, my good man!

And, uh, smear? Are we talking about a bagel or what's left after a 155mm shell lands?

 

[jaguar36]

~~~~~~~~~Mod Note~~~~~~~~
Please keep the posts on topic and as always, if you disagree with a post, feel free to write a post on why you think it is incorrect. If you instead attack the person who wrote it, it will be deleted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bill D]

I will trot out the old video of a Chinese factory making army helmets in a four man stamping press. I doubt it is in Taiwan.
Bill D

 

[DDoug]

Back to the OP....Artillery rounds are used for what purpose ?
Their accuracy ?
They aren't guided missiles by any stretch.

And yes, I expect manufacturers to sell to both sides equally, that's the whole reason for wars these days, so GD, NG, BOING BOING can make profits.

Nothing personal dontcha know....

 

[Mr. Atoz]

Bullshit. It was no such thing, there were no mean words or personal slanders involved, I ridiculed Mllands's statements without saying anything out of line about he himself. Mr Jaguar here just censors anyone whom he doesn't like, especially when they print an uncomfortable truth. TOTAL bullshit, here in the land of the free and home of the brave.

Which is how it is, I'm not going to cry over shitty moderation but let's have it known that Jaguar36 is not honest.

~~~~~~~Mod Edit - Personal attack on another member deleted, Feel free to insult me, but insulting other members is not allowed.~~~~~~~~~~~~

Right.

This person is an expletive deleted. And that's a fact.

Somebody sure has their panties in a knot.

 

[Scottl]

do you make a soup pot by starting with a 10" solid round rod and cutting away most of it? yea, not the same, but just sayin' there are proven better ways to make some things, the "modern" idea of hacking anything hollow out of a bar on a CNC lathe is often wasteful and stupid even today with automation.
a forge line can pop out a "near net" (in todays parlance) 155 shell body in about 15 seconds maybe (im guessing) hard to beat that.

True, but if you are in wartime and your supply lines are disrupted you may not have access to a heavy duty forge facility. All over the world there are lots of machine shops including many with CNC.

 

[Scottl]

Oh good, the 'kill ratio'. I was hoping that'd be back, it can match the domino theory. Pretty soon we can see the 'light at the end of the tunnel' too. Hey, first cav, awesome ! bring out the b-52's ! agent orange, yay !

Maybe the world can finally be at peace when the last american is hanged in the entrails of the last banker ...

Glad you don't have any hostility toward ordinary Americans, just the war monger leaders.

 

[Rob F.]

True, but if you are in wartime and your supply lines are disrupted you may not have access to a heavy duty forge facility. All over the world there are lots of machine shops including many with CNC.

This is also true that shells can be made on CNC lathe. At 26.8" each (68.1cm) you get 5 out of a 12' bar. Russia is shooting about 20,000 per day and on heavy day 60,000, Ukraine shoots considerably less. So to make one days worth of shells would take 4000 12' bars of material. What would be the machine time to make a shell?
Say it was 1 hr each for simple math so each machine could make 24 per day, so to make 20.000 shells in one day would need 833 machines. (or 1 machine could do it in 833 days- aprox 2 years and 4 months )
Check my math on these estimates
I would be surprised if there was enough material on hand to do 1/2 of that and how about the 800+ machines needed to keep up with usage? Granted we can probably cut this number in half while the current forges are also making some shells. I see this as a good discussion that has shown that this a non starter. In a real wartime economy all those machines would be making more important parts while the forges keep churning out the arty shells.

edit to add:
The actual shell body is around 600mm mm long and the thread in fuse at the tip makes up the balance of the length. That means it could be possible to get 6 pcs per 12' bar of material.

 

[jaguar36]

So,

This is also true that shells can be made on CNC lathe. At 26.8" each (68.1cm) you get 5 out of a 12' bar. Russia is shooting about 20,000 per day and on heavy day 60,000, Ukraine shoots considerably less. So to make one days worth of shells would take 4000 12' bars of material. What would be the machine time to make a shell?
Say it was 1 hr each for simple math so each machine could make 24 per day, so to make 20.000 shells in one day would need 833 machines. (or 1 machine could do it in 833 days- aprox 2 years and 4 months )
Check my math on these estimates
I would be surprised if there was enough material on hand to do 1/2 of that and how about the 800+ machines needed to keep up with usage? Granted we can probably cut this number in half while the current forges are also making some shells. I see this as a good discussion that has shown that this a non starter. In a real wartime economy all those machines would be making more important parts while the forges keep churning out the arty shells.

To take that a bit farther, a 155mm x27" hunk of steel weighs 236lbs. 20,000 cylinders would be 2360 tons of steel. US Steel production is 240,000 tons per day. Also, obviously Haas machines are too crappy to make even artillery shells on, but if they could Haas sold 15,000 machines in 2018 (the last year I could find data on). If you assume those could all be lathes, it would only be about 10% of just Haas's machine sales for a single year.

So 1% of current steel production, and 10% of a years of a single machine builder's production to make the lathes. Certainly doable even if it would be the dumbest way possible to make shells.

 

[Milland]

So 1% of current steel production, and 10% of a years of a single machine builder's production to make the lathes. Certainly doable even if it would be the dumbest way possible to make shells.

Nah, 3D printing would be the DWP. Or laminating sheet steel, or epoxy-steel composite, or...