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Craftsman / Atlas 101 A bit of a wobble

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Hello All. I've not been able to determine the year of this old lathe and I haven't seen another which engages the spindle quite like this one does. The issue I'm having is the cuts are not even. If I cut down the wall of a piece of steel conduit the wall thickness will be off about 0.008 from one side to the other. Cutting a solid round bar the result is round but is offset to one side.

I have removed the chuck jaws and cleaned them up. I've cleaned the threads of the gear inside the chuck. All that seems fine. There's a little vibration when motor is running, but after engaging the spindle there's a bit more vibration. I can't detect any movement in the chuck in any direction by hand. So the bearings feel tight, but I guess I might not be able to fee movement in the thousands of an inch...

Any idea what's causing the vibration and offset cut?

Thank you very much.
John




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Greg Menke

Diamond
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
Baltimore, MD, USA
Please see the sticky threads at the top of the forum. As per rules given by the site owner, discussion of Atlas/Craftsman machines is curtailed. As moderator, and as subject to the Beat Down, I will make some exceptions, but not including detailed technical support of the machines.
 

Rob F.

Diamond
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Location
California, Central Coast
If you have to ask questions about one of the forbidden tools, of which yours is one of them, the only way is to ask it in a generic machining type of way. In other words do not mention the brand of the machine and do not show pics that can easily identify it. A video of the chuck spinning showing some wobble could be from any lathe so would not get you this flak.....
And/or go ask at the other sites where they are welcome.
 
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bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Thanks to most everyone for your feedback. I figured this was the correct place based on all the other atlas 101 threads I'd found on this forum in this vintage machinery section. Before coming here I had already signed up for the hobby-machinist forum but am apparently still waiting on admin approval. After the response regarding my toy machine here I did sign up for the homeshopmachinist forum but still have not received a confirmation email. I'll go ahead and make this my last post/comment here. Thanks again. John
 

Joe Michaels

Diamond
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Location
Shandaken, NY, USA
John:

Thank you for being a gentleman and understanding the 'prohibition' against 'hobby' machinery.

Before the thread is locked, I hope to offer some general advice. If you are going to check things like bearing play or runout, unless it is large enough to be seen/felt, a dial indicator is needed. In your video clip (or whatever it is called) of your lathe running, I believe I saw the belt guard on the headstock vibrating. I'd suggest you get a dial indicator and check bearing play in the headstock/spindle bearings. If the lathe uses 'antifriction' bearings (such as ball or roller bearings), and those bearings are badly worn, the spindle will describe an orbit as it turns. Belt pull on the headstock cone pulley as well as tool load will turn this orbit into something other than circular.

To check bearing play:
-remove any chuck or faceplate from the spindle.
-slack the drive belt to the headstock cone pulley
-put the quadrant gears (which select direction of carriage travel) in neutral position.
-back gear must be disengaged.
-setup a dial indicator so it is rigidly mounted and its tip contacts the spindle where the threads end and an unthreaded portion (known as the 'register') or a larger
diameter collar is located. This will be immediately to the right of the front spindle bearing.\
-zero the dial indicator.
-put a bar into the spindle, a hardwood hammer handle works well for a smaller lathe like yours. Press the bar down as hard as you can. Note any movement of the
dial indicator.
-with the spindle bottomed out in the bearing, re-zero the indicator and pull up had on the bar. Note the reading on the indicator.
-this reading gotten by pulling upwards is the bearing play top-to-bottom.
-setup the indicator so its axis is horizontal, tip contacting the spindle nose at 9:00 when facing the spindle nose. Repeat the above steps.
-the two sets of readings will give you an idea of bearing play in two axis.

To check spindle runout, simply turn the spindle by hand with the indicator setup as per above, either position being OK.

-to check tail bearing play (the small end of the spindle where the drive to the quadrant gears is located), you will need to slack any thrust adjustment on the spindle
(if used, though not likely if roller or ball bearings used for the spindle journals).
-setup the dial indicator as per above, and take the same readings top-to-bottom and side-to-side

I would also check the fit of the cone pulley on the spindle. The cone pulley is free to turn on the spindle when the back gears are engaged. The cone pulley is fixed to the spindle by a pin when running 'direct'. If the cone pulley hub were run without proper lubrication with the lathe running in back gear, there may be some excessive wear in the pulley hub. I am unfamiliar with your lathe. lathes I have worked on with cone pulleys and back gearing had a bronze bushing in the cone pulley. This provided a bearing for the pulley to turn relative to the spindle. If this fit is worn on your lathe, the cone pulley will float on the spindle, probably running eccentric to the centerline of the spindle. It will wind upcreating an imbalance when the lathe is running and cause vibration.

Your lathe's issues are more likely due to badly worn spindle bearings. Again: get a dial indicator and take some readings. Try turning the spindle by hand and see if you feel any roughness as you rotate the spindle. Worn ball or roller bearings often produce a roughness as they run and it can be felt.
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
John:

Thank you for being a gentleman and understanding the 'prohibition' against 'hobby' machinery.

Before the thread is locked, I hope to offer some general advice. If you are going to check things like bearing play or runout, ......
Thank you very much for the detailed info. I will work on getting my dial indicator set up on the lathe shortly. I was thinking it must be a bent shaft since I can't feel any play in the bearings by hand, but since we're talking ones or tenths of a thousandth I guess I likely wouldn't feel that play by hand. I have to work on getting the chuck lose. It doesn't appear to be rusted in place but it's really on there and I'm afraid of damaging something. I will work on this today. Thanks again for the tip/s.

John
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
#1 A 3 jaw chuck will always have some runout and is not repeatable....
I'm not getting any noticeable movement up and down, but front to back I'm getting around 0.100" of movement on the spindle. I can not get the chuck lose and don't want to break a gear. I'll look into the 3d print tool but am tempted to try a leather belt in the meantime as a way of holding the pulleys still. Not sure how, but I'm getting basically zero on the runout test

Thanks again, John.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
These are very lightweight low cost machines and they get worse with age. Can it be made better with some fettling? Yes, but it will always require light cuts and great care with materials and tooling.
 

dalmatiangirl61

Diamond
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Location
BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
I'm not getting any noticeable movement up and down, but front to back I'm getting around 0.100" of movement on the spindle. I can not get the chuck lose and don't want to break a gear. I'll look into the 3d print tool but am tempted to try a leather belt in the meantime as a way of holding the pulleys still. Not sure how, but I'm getting basically zero on the runout test

Thanks again, John.
Runout is in the chuck jaws, they do not hold the part concentric with the bearings. To turn a piece of tubing and have wall thickness uniform you will need a 4 jaw independent chuck or go between centers. .100 movement of spindle indicates something is wrong.
 

Joe Michaels

Diamond
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Location
Shandaken, NY, USA
John:

Be extremely careful as to how you go about breaking the chuck loose from the spindle threads. The lathes of the type you have had many parts, including some of the gears, made of a die-cast zinc alloy ("Zamak", I believe was the trade name). Using the back gears and locking pin to lock the spindle from turning while you try to break loose and unscrew the chuck could result in some heavy damage like stripped gear teeth.

You may wind up removing the gear on the small 'tail' end of the spindle and putting a friction clamp on the spindle. A clamp made of two pieces of aluminum each forming a half-circle, and pulled together with bolts to grip that small end of the spindle would work. A lever arm made of a piece of 1 1/2" or 2" steel angle (aka 'angle iron') bolted to the clamp would give you a means to hold back against the torque you apply at the chuck. It is probably sacrilege to suggest this, but if you chuck a piece of steel hex stock in the chuck and apply an impact wrench with the 'hold back' clamp in place, you might just break the chuck loose on the spindle thread.

You are dealing with a very lightly built lathe, and it is quite easy to break those die-cast parts.
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
I had seen some instruction on runout of the spindle which is what I was checking. I guess the jaws are not something that can be remedied. I did try the hex stock method with an impact and a strap around the pulleys. Nothing. I'm thinking though the impact I have was given to me a 'junk' and it must be as I can resist it's force with just a bare hand. I do believe the chuck must come lose to change bearings. If I do ever get it freed up I'll look for a four jaw. Thanks Joe. Thanks Dalmation.
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
I got the chuck off.
Runout in chuck jaws can be corrected to a degree, but at this point in time it is well above your pay grade, simple rule, all 3 jaw chucks have runout, some worse than others. 3d printed....
I got the damn thing off. lol. One very busted up shin (wrench slipped and crushed my leg).... a sacrificial v-belt around the large pulley through a piece of conduit. A large crescent wrench with leverage bar on a jaw and a lot of force. It's off. I will look into the 3d part moving forward. Thanks for the link too.
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
I have the whole headstock torn down. The bearing closest to the chuck is dated 4.5.1951. There are only what appear to be factory witness marks on the spindle. My guess is that this lathe is a 1951 model and has never been serviced. Bearings are going to cost around $150. Not a bad deal as I see it. Picked up the lathe free. I had been shopping ebay for a replacement spindle. This spindle is in excellent condition. Far better than any (aside from new old stock) that I've found for sale. Seems i'm in good shape here. Thanks again everyone. Best regards, John
 








 
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