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Craftsman / Atlas 101 A bit of a wobble

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I think one is better off with a bench grinder for sharpening tool bits. I think one can get a sharper and straighter edge. Agree insert for aluminum are sharper and best for a light duty lathe.
But with moderate sharpening ability HSS cant be beat on mild steel one and few-ups.
 
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bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Brief update. I'm in the process of replacing every zamak gear with steel. I've already replaced two. The rest should be here tomorrow or Tuesday. Also replacing the brass backlash nuts with new brass. Found that the nut in the carriage was crazy sloppy and the one in the turrit wasn't far behind. I'm sure this was adding to the horrible cuts. Picked up an 8" 4 jaw chuck today. Just over $500 into it so far. Should be smooth sailing after this. Then maybe a video and some pics.

Thanks again,
John
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Your photos show a rather 'dry' lathe. Oil early, oil often, oil everywhere. If your lathe is dripping very slowly, apply more oil....
Tom
Hey Tom,
I picked up a few oil pumper cans and some non-detergent compressor oil from harborfreight yesterday. Everything that calls for sae 20 is thoroughly saturated and dripping now.

Then I ordered from ebay (toolguys2) one gallon of Mobil Velocite No. 10, one gallon of Vactra #2 Way Oil and from lelubricants .com a Tube of 5182 Open Gear Grease.

I'm pretty sure I have it all covered. I've replaced most of the gears behind the apron with steel, i've replaced the larger brass backlash nut on the compound with new brass. The smaller one for the turret should be here tomorrow. Also just picked up an 8" four jaw chuck.

Now I just need the learning....

Thanks again folks!

John
 

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bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Hello All. So I'm building a 2x72 belt grinder and ran into a problem. I was going to drill and stack about 50 washers to get the wheels to fit right. Then I realized that I could make spacers on the lathe! I've recently added a Colton BXA wedge quick change tool post, a 7/16 boring bar, a live center and also a tail stock drill chuck. Life is good.

Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here who helped me with tips and files. Your efforts have not been in vain. The machine is running smoothly. Very well lubed. I love lathing!!



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bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Pretty fancy oil.cans there 😀 I label my oil cans, they being all the same type- after a year or two the oil wipes out the adhesive, even with a packing tape cover.
Thanks! I'm hoping the vinyl holds up. So far so good. Purchased one of them cricuts a couple years ago and only used it maybe three times. Figured this was a perfect opportunity.
 

Joe Michaels

Diamond
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Location
Shandaken, NY, USA
John:

I am glad you have your lathe up and running. As (probably) all of us who own/operate lathes and other machine tools well know, we wonder how we ever lived without them. Being able to make parts to suit your needs puts you in a whole different league. As you get into using your lathe, you will find yourself making parts and tooling for every imaginable purpose. You will find yourself making parts, whether shop related, or beyond, extending into your home and other areas of your life. Your imagination and ability to think a job through while working within the limits of your shop are the only limitations. With some imagination, a small lathe can do a lot more than one might think at first glance.

In our home, there are parts as well as entire projects that came out of my machine shop. Over our kitchen range there is a range hood that exhausts thru an outside wall. The range hood hangs on brackets I fabricated from steel angle and lagged into the studs in the wall. The ducting for the exhaust off the range hood is hidden by a stainless steel panel fastened to the front of those brackets. Instead of using plain fasteners, I made some bronze finished washers and heavy bronze cap nuts in my shop. People visiting our home see the range hood and ask 'who made that', if they do not know about shop work. Others simply say: "looks like something Joe built".

Parts for lighting fixtures, vehicles, tractors, tools, you name it.... once you get in the swing of machine shop work (sorry about that pun), you will wonder how you lived previously. Even something as mundane as hardware items like fasteners, if you are caught short or need to modify them on a weekend when the hardware store is closed (or too much time to hold up a project to go there) will be within your reach. Years ago, some fellow on a jobsite I was assigned to was restoring an early 50's car. He was going nuts because the bolts which held the hood to the hinges had a shoulder, a smaller diameter thread than the shank. He could not find the bolts and was driving around with folded newspaper between the rear edge of the hood and the cowling, since the hood would otherwise move around due to the larger diameter holes surrounding the smaller threads on the bolts. I chucked a couple of standard hex head bolts with the right shank diameter in my lathe, put a center in the threaded end, and turned things down and cut the threads. The guy was over the moon about it. It was a simple job, and a handshake and thanks and knowing I had enabled this guy to enjoy his old car were all the payment I needed. A neighbor had gotten a small lathe and mill/drill to build model engines. I had shown him the basics and he was happily machining engine castings and parts. He had an old "Economy" light tractor. The steering shaft bearing in the steering box had been destroyed when water and years of dis-use took their toll. The new bearing was either hard to come by or expensive (I forget which). I told my neighbor: "You have a lathe... get a chunk of bronze and make a plain bushing to fit where that bearing was... drill things for a grease zerk and you will be just fine." My neighbor suddenly had a "Eureka" moment, realizing that his lathe and mill were good for infinitely more than building model engines.

As for oil and oil cans, you are over the top with labelling. I am not so fancy. I use a paint marker and just write in my own hand to label the oil cans. Mostly, I use Tractor Hydraulic Oil, in the ISO 46 grade. This is a 'straight weight' mineral based oil with anti foam and anti corrosion additives. I use it in the spindle bearings and other plain bearings on my machine tools as well as a general 'machine oil'. Years before automobiles came along to spur the development and rating systems for lube oils, an old designation was "DTE". DTE = Dynamo, Turbine, Engine. This designation is still used in powerplant and industrial lubricant specifications, along with the ISO viscosity rating. DTE viscosities were: Heavy, Heavy-Medium, Medium, and Light. Tractor Hydraulic Oil (which is also used in the transaxles of many tractors) is a DTE oil. A rwo gallon jug at Tractor Supply or similar will last you a good long while. I use Husqvarna Bar & Chain oil for waylube. It has the tackifiers and about the right weight for waylube on light machine tools. If I am short on bar and chain oil, I will mix about 50-50, Lucas "Oil Extender" and ISO 46 oil for way lube.

If you can stand a bit of a mess and smoke, sulphur/lard based cutting oils work quite well for turning, parting off, drilling and threading. The plumbing department of big box stores as well as plumbing supply stores will have this type of cutting oil. It comes in two types: dark and light. Either is quite good for thread cutting as well as other machining on everything except aluminum and cast iron. Cast iron is machined dry as it has its own lubricant in the form of free graphite. Aluminum is best machined with a very thin oil such as a kerosene, but penetrating oils work just fine for small work in home shops. WD-40 is fine to use when turning, drilling, or machining aluminum. About the only downsides to using cutting oils is the mess and sometimes some smoke and odors. I no sooner clean my machine tools than they are covered in chips (swarf or 'turnings' for the long curling chips). Machine tools, at least in my shop, are there to be used rather than kept as showpieces or similar., Just don't get too familiar with the long curling chips as they spiral off when you are taking a cut. Those chips can lay your fingers and hands open in a heartbeat. Do not handle the chips barehanded. Make a hook out of light steel rod to handle the long chips and use pliers and/or work gloves to handle the chips when collecting and disposing of them. I've got a few scars and had a few sutures put in, so speak from experience in this matter. Another habit to get into is
to ALWAYS remove the key from a lathe chuck or any chuck that will be set into motion. As soon as you are done chucking or removing a job, take the key out of the chuck and hang it in the same spot. A lathe spindle when started in motion can fling a chuck key with great force and velocity and do a lot of damage. When you chuck or setup a large job in your lathe, bring the carriage and compound (along with the toolholder in place on the toolpost) to the closest points it will be needed. Turn the spindle over by hand to make sure that projecting chuck jaws, lathe dogs, or work on a faceplate will clear the compound (many older lathes have battle scars on the LH corner of the compound from being run into chuck jaws). It's a good habit to be in and will avoid a crash or having to re-set your tool to finish a job. Most of machine shop work, at least in my experience and opinion, is 'head work'- planning a job, making sketches and figuring setups and cuts and anything else needed before you go near the machine tools. I also found that many jobs have more time in the setup than taking the actual cuts. The word in setting up any job on a machine tool is "rigidity". Overkill in a setup is preferred. You will build off each job you do on your lathe, gaining experience and your mind will race ahead. You will find yourself sketching on anything handy to plan jobs or dream of projects. It's a nice place to be in. Good luck !
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
John:

I am glad you have your lathe up and running. As (probably) all of us who own/operate lathes and other machine tools well know, we wonder how we ever lived without them.......
I have so many ideas coming to mind. On the short list I'm going to melt and pour some aluminum. I'm going to chuck those round billets and turn out some pulleys to fit an old alternator and an old gas engine from a pressure washer. You guessed it... home brew generator. I do have a large portable home power gen, but why not make my own?! I can't think of a good reason so I'm doing it.

At first I was using a sharpie to mark the oil cans but it looked like crap and was rubbing off. So I sanded them down, added paint and put this very expensive vinyl cutter to work. I have to say.. it does look pretty sharp too.

I'm flying pretty high at the moment. I know there will be failures, but for the time being I seem to be well within the tolerances of quality production machine shops. A buddy of mine working in Erie PA said their tolerance is about 0.010. The testing (video below) I've done on some old rough galvanized conduit I'm seeing results of 0.002 and below.

Even better... I made the HSS tool used to cut these parts. I'm pretty pleased.

I've been pretty careful to double check clearance of every moving part thus far. I have a good bit of time and waaay too much money involved in getting this 1951 machine running smoothly. The last thing I want to do is crash it or seriously hurt myself. I'll be sure to keep an eye on safety.

I did find a lot of support for hydraulic and bar oil, but I was also guided to a PDF which is specifically written for these older craftsman and atlas machines. I'm not doubting you or anyone else who's recommended hydraulic and bar oils. I own both types for my husky 455 saw and my china made 4 stage air compressor. I just figured if there was an old timer telling me specific lubes to use on various points of the machine that I'd better do that if at all possible. Was a bit costly, but that's the route I took.

Thanks again to everyone here who took the time to help me out. Your time and energy is greatly appreciated.

 

animal12

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Location
CA USA
Everyone of these pump oil cans I have gotten from HF start leaking at the bottom seam . YA mite put some paper or something absorbent in the bottom of yer oil can holder .
animal
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Everyone of these pump oil cans I have gotten from HF start leaking at the bottom seam . YA mite put some paper or something absorbent in the bottom of yer oil can holder .
animal
Sounds about right. I'll keep an eye on it. Most of the wood around is amish rough cut so it's plenty absorbent. lol.

Thanks,
John
 

Joe Michaels

Diamond
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Location
Shandaken, NY, USA
I found some of the "Goldenrod" pump oil cans as "New Old Stock" on eBay. US made in Nebraska. I have an ancient Goldenrod pump oil can in my shop that needed a replacement flex spout. It's a good 50 years old. Dutton-Lainson, the makers of Goldenrod oil cans are still in business and had a replacement flex spout for a reasonable price. I also have some "Eagle" pump oil cans in my shop. Either one, they are good US made oil cans. No leaks. Some date to when I was a kid, in my father's basement shop, and were probably oil cans he got second hand.

"Pig Mats" work well for oil absorption. A metal tray sized to hold the oil cans will catch any stray oil (or seepage). A piece of "Pig Mat" in the bottom of the tray keeps the cans from sliding around and keeps up with any stray oil. A baking pan such as is used for baking breads or similar might work for this purpose. Personally, I keep my oil cans in the chip pans of the machine tools more often than not.
 

Greg Menke

Diamond
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
Baltimore, MD, USA
My "beater" oil cans are plain home depot grade, with the quite stiff hose. As a present for my dad I bought him one of the absurdly expensive swiss Reilang oilers with the fancy aluminum bottle and swiveling pickup, one for me too lol.


Probably not worth it for any additional function beyond the large capacity, but was fun to do and he can tease me about it so thats fine :) I use mine with way oil on the ATW lathe where the larger size makes it easier to put hands on.
 

animal12

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Location
CA USA
I have a bunch of the Eagles that were my dads , & a few that are mine . I have no idea whats in any of them so the HF's need to last till I can purge all of the Eagles . I like those Swiss " Brush oilers .
thanks
animal
 

Joe Michaels

Diamond
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Location
Shandaken, NY, USA
The digression of this thread to the subject of oil cans brings back a memory of my boyhood. I have short tendons in my legs, so had a kind of springy or bouncy walk when I was a boy. Some of the neighborhood kids used to ridicule me for my walk and made up an insulting song about it. When I'd walk down the street, if those kids were out and about, I'd hear that song and their insults. Like many groups, there was the neighborhood bully. He was a tall guy, and a real mean individual. He sometimes would grab me and spit phlegm onto the top of my head. One Saturday, I was working with my father in our basement. I was wearing a set of Sears, Roebuck coveralls. Dad asked me to go to the corner of our block and drop some letters in the mailbox. I knew I'd have to run the gauntlet with the kids and their insults, and knew the neighborhood bully would probably be out and about. I also knew these two entities fed off each other and I was their prey.

In a flash of brilliance, I grabbed the Eagle pump oil can that Dad kept filled with Hercules Dark Sulphur Cutting Oil. We used it when threading pipe. It was a copper-colored pump oil can with a rigid steel spout. I made sure that oil can was filled with the cutting oil and took it and the letters and headed out. Sure enough, the chorus of insulting singing about me started as did the remarks as to my coveralls. Predictably also, the block bully, who towered over me appeared and got in my path. Before he could land another 'lunger' on my head, I made a pre-emptive strike. I spritzed his eyes and face with Dark Sulphur Cutting Oil and told him to Drop Dead and Go to Hell (about the strongest curses I could muster at that time). He was frantically rubbing his face and hollering in a combination of pain and rage. I was laughing. The kids who had ridiculed me were now telling me I was as good as dead, and that I could not take a joke, etc. My late father was no one to mess around with, and if the bully's father had any ideas about taking it up with my old man, it did not happen. Dad was a guy who'd been raised in a tough neighborhood, served in WWII and seen combat, coming home wounded. Dad was of the generation where a man was expected to stand up for himself and his people. None of today's 'let's settle our differences by peaceful conflict resolution". Dad though my blitzing the bully with the cutting oil was a good move on my part since I knew I'd get pulverized in a fist fight with him.

I never had any further trouble from that bully. The singing and derogatory remarks continued whenever I walked down our block, however. I shrugged it off, knowing I would foTime passed and I became an engineer and left home. On my first job in heavy construction, I was pulled aside by the pipefitter foreman. He asked where I was from (he was from Fieldcrest Mills, NC as I recall). He told me I had the walk of a country boy, walking over the furrows in a plowed field, and gave me a fatherly pat on the shoulder. I felt about ten feet tall and knew I'd found a place where I fit in. Anytime I smell Dark Sulphur Cutting Oil, I think of the time I blitzed the neighborhood bully. That was a monumental act of defiance on my part. Gotta love those pump oil cans. Gotta love the smell of that Hercules Dark Sulphur Cutting Oil as well.
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
The digression of this thread to the subject of oil cans brings back a memory.....
That's an incredible story. I'm so sorry that you had to endure such abuse as a child. I was happy to read about your retaliation against one of the punks. I sure hope that karma eventually came for the rest of them.

There are a few things that bring back childhood memories for me, but I'm sure none of them quite as powerful as Hercules dark sulphur cutting oil does for you.

On a slightly different note... I've been looking around at old oil cans and I've gotta say there are some real beauties out there. A bit out of my price range for an oil can, but some real lookers. Heck if I had one I might just clean it up real nice and put it on a shelf in the living room.
 

animal12

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Location
CA USA
I was in the same boat as Joe . I spent 8th grade & most of my freshman & sophomore year on crutches . I learned I couldn't fight back after being warned for wacking a guy with one of my crutches , so I learned to talk fast . Anyone started in on me & I could put them in their place usually with a couple of thought out words . It got fun making the big ole bully's feel like their 2 feet tall in front of their friends . That quick wit still can get me in trouble 50 years later . Now a days a kid tries something like Joe did & theirs lawyers callin on their folks the next day .
animal
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
I was in the same boat as Joe . I spent 8th grade & most of my freshman & sophomore year on crutches...
I grew up in CA in the 80's. Gangs were an issue for me. Got beaten half to death a few times. I learned to run fast. Thank God I was never shot. lol. There was a time at a new school I was surrounded by what seemed like the entire school. A gangster ( or wanna be gangster ) said hey homes I heard you were talking s#*t about my cousin. Meanwhile I have no idea who these people are.... So I said maybe, who's your cousin, like cockroaches I guess you're all related somehow. And that's about all I managed to say before the beating began. I absolutely hated every single day at every single school mom moved me to. It was a nightmare growing up there. A beautiful place but the worst place for a kid trying to make his way.
 

Doozer

Titanium
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Location
Buffalo NY

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This is where a little bit of advice has gone too far in the wrong direction.
There is what the factory recommends, there are rules of thumb of that
the machine tool users do, and there is reality based on the actual
machine and situation.
Do you need Vactra way lube? It depends.
If you have a horizontal boring mill, with an 800 pound table,
then yes I would use the Vactra way lube.
If you have a 20" gear head engine lathe, with 4" spindle bore,
then yes I would use DTE or AW circulating oil.
If I were cutting 2"-4 threads at 600 RPM with carbide inserts,
then yes I would use cutting oil.
But this is a 10" Atlas lathe. I used to have one.
Now I have a 20" lathe and a HBM.
So I know the difference in the application and the difference
in the requirements.
On my 10" Atlas lathe, I used 30 weight oil. FOR EVERYTHING.
It does not need anything more sophisticated. For the bearings,
for the ways, and for the cutting, just use 30 weight oil.
The forces and the pressures and the weight of the components
are SMALL. You do not need special oils.
Having the exact proper (?) oil for this and the exact proper (?)
oil for that, may not be the most practical solution for the size
of the lubrication problem.
When you really analyze the engineering requirements
for the application that requires lubrication, this little lathe and the
work it can do, does not dictate using special oils.
If you choose to use them anyhow, it may be more of an emotional
feel good choice than a hard engineering requirement. Which is fine.
Just keep the reality of the situation in mind.

-Doozer
 

bumbino

Plastic
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
20230813_002109-jpg.405108

This is where a little bit of advice has gone too far in the wrong direction.
There is what the factory recommends, there are rules of thumb of that
the machine tool users do, and there is reality based on the actual
machine and situation.
Do you need Vactra way lube? It depends.......

I was just following instructions given by someone much more familiar with milling and these machines in particular than myself. Not sure if it makes a difference but mine is 12". The cutting oil I already owned. I figured that since I had spent so much money and effort getting this lathe back into working order I could at least use the lubes recommended by a seasoned vet. Given the cost to replace the Timken spindle bearings the $50 for a gallon of oil was well justified.

Best,
John
 

Greg Menke

Diamond
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
Baltimore, MD, USA
I'm just glad you're oiling the thing. My dad has an SB 9". One Christmas 10 years ago or so I bought him a set of 1 gal DTE, Heavy/Med and Vactra jugs each with a labelled oiler- he still hasn't used up any of the jugs. But at least after years of harrassment he vacuums the machine....
 








 
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