Cut-Off on Swiss

[Ox]

Yeah, I like that, but will have to look at the coding per bar change and see how that effects that.

Actually, I just started running with the sub this weekend. The sub was down when I bought it, and I just got it going on ... Friday?


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[chad883]

Here is my bar change sub. If you still have an issue with the cut off insert, you could
run the top cut
pull back
face with turn tool
reposition main
clamp
then go back to the main program


O8000(BAR-CHANGE-PROGRAM)
$1
G99
M3S1=1000
M53
G1X[#814+#815]W-7.5F.050 X CLEARANCE INC Z 7.5
M3S1=200
M7 OPEN MAIN
G4U.1
M55
G4U.5
M6 CLOSE MAIN
G4U.4
M3S1=1500
G1W7.5F.025 FEED NEW BAR TO TOP CUT POS
M52
G4U.4
G1X-.05F.0015
M99

 

[guythatbrews]

Ox finally getting back to this. Here is an example of using a hard stop to stock out against, rather than using the parting tool.

This is the start of the program, but you can do the same thing anywhere you need to stock out, like in the middle of the program if you need more material out of the chuck later. Line N100 calls the safe start cutoff routine for a new bar or for restarting after new bar is loaded. You have to position the parting tool above the workpiece if you need to restart in the middle of a bar, then M91 calls sub 9001 and it handles the rest.

This part is made from 1/4 bar in chucker mode. The parting tool is a fragile 1mm wide thing and I don't want to push against it. Later in the program the stop is used again against a turned down 1/16" diameter so I can stock out and turn more of the part. Barfeed pressure is set to 20%. To figure pressure I turn pressure % down very low and open chuck while holding stock back with my hand. This way I have a very good idea how hard the stock is pushing and just adjust from there until it feels right. Probably not OSHA approved! No damage to the end of the part at all and able to hold tenths on finished length. Material is Nitronic 60.

Tsugami BO326II Fanuc 32i Model B.
Main spindle to the left, Z+ to the left into stock.

(MAIN PROGRAM)
Start with stock on cutoff tool or perform cutoff if new bar see N100
#500=.25
G40
N100 M91 Call sub to cutoff if reqd for new bar
G150Z.0 Set z zero at cutoff point. The parting tool has been set so the edge of the parting tool against the work is zero so in effect this sets Z zero with the rest of the tools.
M91193 Call pickoff program
M1

N21(***T21 STOP***)
M500
G0G18G99T0
W-.05 Incremental move to clear stop. Really just extra clearance and not needed.
G28U0
T2121
Z-.05 Position stop in Z. This is moving the stock in Z away from the zero position of the stop. With W-.05 above there is now .1 clearance.
X.0 Position stop in X. The stop is the end of a carbide endmill in a drilling position but could also be back side of stick tool.
M11 Open chuck. Barfeed feeds stock to stop.
G4U1.
Z0 Repostion chuck to Z0
M8
G4U.5
G300X[[#2721+#2021]+.000]Z.3T2121 Set amount of stock out of chuck for machining.
G150Z-.01 Set Z stock of .01" to allow facing stock
M10 Close chuck
W-.05 Back off of stop
G0X5.4331Z-0.04T0
M501
M1

Hope this helps. I hardly ever need to do this but as it happens I just finished these parts. They are the smallest parts I can remember making, So small they are hard to measure and you need good tweezers.

Greg

 

[Ox]

OK, I am currently using the sub-cut-off for the first time now.
I have been employing the trigon in T15 as the "stop" for the last several weeks and this has been a positive action.
It costs me a cpl of seconds and has saved me much downtime and perishable costs.

But my T5 (Main Spindle Cut-off) is essentially straight accrost from my Trigon and has similar Z offsets, and all is well.
But currently I am trying to use T4 (Sub Cut-off) and of course that is neither straight accrost, nor has similar offsets.

You will see where I have added a W move in my code, and it's been there since going to the Trigon.
I have been running it at W0 for the most part tho.
I could see that sometimes it would move and others not so much, and I never quite understood it, but it was never an issue, so I didn't dwell on it. ... 'till now....


N400 T404 (SUB CUT-OFF) [Z.604 offset]
G97 G98 G20
M13 S2000
G1 X-.05 F3.
G0 X1.5
T0
W0 [Shouldn't move, but it does move back to prox where the next tool is at]

N401 T1515 (TRIGON) [Z.083 offset]
G97 G98 G20
M13 S2000
G0 X.8
G1 X0 F10.
M9
M5
M94 (PUSH)
G4 X1.
M21
G4 X1.
G300 Z1.5
G50 Z0
M22
G4 X1.
G0 X1.1
M93 (NOT PUSH)
G28 U0


Everything was honky dorey 'till I wanted to run the sub cut-off, with the Trigon at a non-similar offset.

What I am getting is that during cycle, it seems to read the W as an ABS value, not INCR.

If I just cycle the re-chuch starting at N400, it reads the W as INCR.

So, for in-cycle times I have my W at "0", but if I cycle it _stand-alone _ then I need to edit it to W-.525

Near as I can tell, it must have sumpthing to doo with the fact that there is no Z value in the N400 and below code.
That's all that I can come up with.


Can anyone come up with why my W is acting differently?


EDIT:

Tool offsets are:

T4 = Z.604
T5 = Z.08
T15 = Z.083

These may be being looked at and playing a roll?



-------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[guythatbrews]

OK, I am currently using the sub-cut-off for the first time now.
I have been employing the trigon in T15 as the "stop" for the last several weeks and this has been a positive action.
It costs me a cpl of seconds and has saved me much downtime and perishable costs.

But my T5 (Main Spindle Cut-off) is essentially straight accrost from my Trigon and has similar Z offsets, and all is well.
But currently I am trying to use T4 (Sub Cut-off) and of course that is neither straight accrost, nor has similar offsets.

You will see where I have added a W move in my code, and it's been there since going to the Trigon.
I have been running it at W0 for the most part tho.
I could see that sometimes it would move and others not so much, and I never quite understood it, but it was never an issue, so I didn't dwell on it. ... 'till now....


N400 T404 (SUB CUT-OFF)
G97 G98 G20
M13 S2000
G1 X-.05 F3.
G0 X1.5
T0
W0

N401 T1515 (TRIGON)
G97 G98 G20
M13 S2000
G0 X.8
G1 X0 F10.
M9
M5
M94 (PUSH)
G4 X1.
M21
G4 X1.
G300 Z1.5
G50 Z0
M22
G4 X1.
G0 X1.1
M93 (NOT PUSH)
G28 U0


Everything was honky dorey 'till I wanted to run the sub cut-off, with the Trigon at a non-similar offset.

What I am getting is that during cycle, it seems to read the W as an ABS value, not INCR.

If I just cycle the re-chuch starting at N400, it reads the W as INCR.

So, for in-cycle times I have my W at "0", but if I cycle it _stand-alone _ then I need to edit it to W-.525

Near as I can tell, it must have sumpthing to doo with the fact that there is no Z value in the N400 and below code.
That's all that I can come up with.


Can anyone come up with why my W is acting differently?



-------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Try flipping the W0 and T0.

If you are not intending to move at the W0 line, do you even need the W0?
I use W-0.04 in my machine to retract the stock and not rub the parting tool on the way out.

 

[Ox]

I was looking at that T0 in my code here, and I wondered "Doo I really need that line?"
So I tried to take it out:

By just running the N400 (re-chuck) section alone:

T0
W0
I get no bar movement, and my trigon wants to crash.

T0
W-.55
Works poifectly
Trigon slightly clears bar on infeed.


But in cycle: *
T0
W-.55
Pulls the bar back 1.125 prox - leaving .600 Clarence to the Trigon.


I don't understand why W isn't always an INCR move, and of the same value?
I would expect the code to be W-.55 and work the same each way.
But in one case W0 appears to be more of a HOME position (ABS) than an INCR move value.

Maybe I can find a universal way by using a G28 and then a W move from there each time?
I will p;lay with that.

.. not that _ that explains why my W is not always INCR.

???



* By "in - cycle" I mean that I have just actually cut the part off. My cut-off has been located in Z and has fed to X0 or whatnot. And at that point we hit the N400 line.


--------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Ox]

Well, employing a G28 move doesn't appear to be the answer as that was an 8" move!
And besides, the bar and the collet are not always going to be at the same distance.
That was a bad idea, I wasn't thinking...


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[guythatbrews]

Ox did you try and put the W0 before the T0? Or just taking the W0 out? Are you looking for no movement on the W0 line?

Greg

 

[Ox]

When I was running the Main cut-off, I didn't need any W move, and I could easily have deleted it, but with using a SUB cut-off I now need a W-.525 move or more to clear the Trigon.

But I need it to move the same whether it is in cycle or just alone.


I have looked through my whole program, and it is all hand coded, so there isn't any CAM induced codes.
All I have is G97's, G98's, G20's, G28's, G0's, G1's, G2's, G3's, and G4's.
I think that is all that is above this point anyhow..

There is a Bar Change Macro (09023) call just before N400, but I skipped over it to see if that made any difference, and - no change.


---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[guythatbrews]

Can you do this?

N400 T404 (SUB CUT-OFF) [Z.604 offset]
G97 G98 G20
M13 S2000
G1 X-.05 F3.
G0 X1.5
G50Z0
Z-.525
T0
W0

 

[Ox]

That's an interesting thought!
Yeah, that seems like it should work! (as well as the W should have anyhow)

I'll give that a go!


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Ox]

Same results...

I even moved the T0 around and no change.



---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[guythatbrews]

I think add G50 Z0 after T0.

 

[Ox]

Yeah, I tried it both ways.

SSDD


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[guythatbrews]

Just to be clear did you add two G50s?

N400 T404 (SUB CUT-OFF) [Z.604 offset]
G97 G98 G20
M13 S2000
G1 X-.05 F3.
G0 X1.5
G50Z0
Z-.525
T0
G50 Z0

 

[Ox]

Yeah, there is another G50 further down to prep for the next part- after the collet cycles - yes.

I'm not saying that your code above didn't work like it looks like it should.
In one case it works exactly like it looks like it should. (same as if I had W-.525)

But in the other case, I think that the bar pulls back probably on the order of the 1.125 (tape measure) like the other W possibility.

The 1.125 appears to not simply be dbl the INPUT value, but rather the sum of the W value and the offset.
I just don't understand why. If I understood why, I could likely figger out how to get around it....

The G50 Z0 is giving me the same results as if I had it prog'd in the W as above.
(which it is just 3 left turns to make a right...)

----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Kevin Connolly]

T0 cancels the large offset from the left hand cutoff and w0 ends up moving the z axis to a position with the same value without the 04 offset or .604 back from where it was for the cutoff op? If so T0 w-.55 would move .55 back plus the canceled offset for a total of 1.154. Calling up offset 15 then making the z move might get you where you want to go more reliably? Those iscar cutoffs are great in one direction but with any pressure from the side the applitec or bimu is the way to go if you can.

 

[Ox]

I will need to look back at my posts and decifer your post in accordance with that, when I git a chance.
I need to play with it more to understand what and why it is acting the way that it is.

I just don't understand why a W move isn't always the same amount...

Currently on jobs that I am using the LH cut-off, I have it prog'd so that it runs in cycle fine, but on a Manuel bar load, I will actually jog the bar appropriately for feed-out.


------------------

I am Ox and I approve this post!

 

[Kevin Connolly]

Is there a position page that will show the position relative to the tool offset? If so does that value change or stay the same after a t0 then w0 command?