Dean Smith Grace lathe falling out of drive

[DonAce]

Hi I use a 1955 type 13 apparently cost £1093 back in the day! It was donated to the charity I volunteer at and has a combination of metric and imperial dials, obviously a later update. My problem is at any time without warning the feed fails. It then takes an age to find a combination of lever movements to re-engage by which time I am lost!
Money is always at a premium at a charity so paying a couple of grand to a agent is not really an option and I don’t want to see it scrapped.
DSG tell me there’s 2 places to look, under the saddle apron ( most likely) or the head/ gearbox. Iam pretty sure it’s not the saddle/ apron because the shafts stop turning.

I also have an issue with the forward/ reverse lever. The detent is worn away so engagement is difficult, having made a bodged replacement ( no real dimensions) I am now wondering if this might be the source of my problem. The detent throws to the left or right causing the gears to engage on their face flanges but only just! Obviously the thicker I make say the left side of the detent the more i slim the right and so on.
Questions - am I on the right track , have any of you seen this problem?
Is there a drawing of the detent or can someone give me the dims?
Clive

 

[boslab]

A tear down of the gearbox ( the Norton cluster gear not the main drive aka speed) is a fairly involved process, it’s a bit of a beast of a gearbox, however it isn’t impossible, I have no idea why the drive is falling away myself, but something is knocking it out, missing teeth come to mind if someone has crashed the carriage, worn bearings or bushes ( running without lube) have a sniff round Eng companies near to see if there’s a fitter who would take a look, esp if they run any DSG, I don’t think your going to solve with written descriptions myself, does it drop out when the saddle is not driving, when driving, does it drop when feed is reversed ie saddle driving away from headstock or headstone if it’s buggered, have you changed the oil, was there any metal
Mark

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Send us some photos and we’ll have a better idea.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[DonAce]

Thank you both for replying.
I hope to provide a picture or two in the next few weeks. I should perhaps explain that the charity is in fact a railway society where we have members of many different skill sets, just not any in tearing down lathes. Rest assured I am not about to dismantle in a rush. slowly and methodically with lots of pictures is my way,

Question- have any of you come across the recommended method for tightening the headstock end bearing?
The head has three sets of roller bearing which the main shaft runs through. Furthest from the chuck is a cover hiding a “C” shaped clamp and the last of the three bearings. The shaft is threaded at this point and the clamp screws on, held in place by a locking screw. How tight to to make this clamp against the end bearing is my Question.

 

[Greenwud]

Hi I use a 1955 type 13 apparently cost £1093 back in the day! It was donated to the charity I volunteer at and has a combination of metric and imperial dials, obviously a later update. My problem is at any time without warning the feed fails. It then takes an age to find a combination of lever movements to re-engage by which time I am lost!
Money is always at a premium at a charity so paying a couple of grand to a agent is not really an option and I don’t want to see it scrapped.
DSG tell me there’s 2 places to look, under the saddle apron ( most likely) or the head/ gearbox. Iam pretty sure it’s not the saddle/ apron because the shafts stop turning.

I also have an issue with the forward/ reverse lever. The detent is worn away so engagement is difficult, having made a bodged replacement ( no real dimensions) I am now wondering if this might be the source of my problem. The detent throws to the left or right causing the gears to engage on their face flanges but only just! Obviously the thicker I make say the left side of the detent the more i slim the right and so on.
Questions - am I on the right track , have any of you seen this problem?
Is there a drawing of the detent or can someone give me the dims?
Clive

Each of the rotary controls has a detent, which consists of a ball and spring, retained by a grub screw. The grub screws are usually clogged with dirt and paint, but if you remove them you will likely find the spring is broken into many pieces-remove these with a magnet and replace the spring, you can replace the ball too if it is worn or corroded. Adjust the tension of the detent with the grub screw.
The spring dimensions are not critical, I managed to buy a handful of usable springs locally.

There is a pair of springs in the apron that control feed engagement but as you say, if the shaft stops turning the gearbox end is the place to start.

 

[boslab]

Your going to want this, the clutch, brake, and bearing adjustment is in there, as well as lube
https://hs.carrs-silver.co.uk/plant.../TYPE 1307 - INSTRUCTIONS TO THE OPERATOR.pdf
Mark
I’d advise printing it!

 

[Greenwud]

Question- have any of you come across the recommended method for tightening the headstock end bearing?
The head has three sets of roller bearing which the main shaft runs through. Furthest from the chuck is a cover hiding a “C” shaped clamp and the last of the three bearings. The shaft is threaded at this point and the clamp screws on, held in place by a locking screw. How tight to to make this clamp against the end bearing is my Question.

Tighten it snug after adjusting the other two bearings- instructions from the manual
Nut 53 is the nut that retains the middle bearing cone.
The manual in the posted link is for a much later model and little is applicable- you will note that the spindle bearings are adjusted by way of a spacer. Please PM me with your email address if you would like a copy of the correct manual. The one DSG sent me is for an earlier machine still.

ROLLER BEARING SPINDLE
To obtain the correct adjustment of the taper roller bearings 45 and 49 (see spare parts list).
L Remove the vee ropes. (See instruction sheet.)
2. Remove set screw in nut 53 and adjust nut until torque to turn spindle with feed clutch
in neutral is lS-25 1b.in. The torque can be measured by the pull on a light spring balance
attached to a string carried round the lathe chuck, turning the spindle slowly.
3. A new hole for the dog point of the set screw in nut 53 may be required.
4. Replace vee ropes.
The torque given above should not be exceeded as this may cause overheating of the bearing

 

[Greenwud]

Tighten it snug after adjusting the other two bearings

- instructions from the manual do not mention this aspect but I've tightened the retaining nut snug instead of leaving it slack and had no issue- that was 8 years and many hours use ago. Some lathes from the period where the round headstock was used (1951-1957) may have had a spring applying preload to the bearing; mine (1954) didn't

Torque should read 18-25 lb/in- copied direct from the PDF file.