Decent 3+2 mill for small parts?

[BROTHERFRANK]

You know where I find some data on the HP and TQ? Kinda want to see where all 3 spindles lie....................

Hi David. Send me a PM with your email and I will send you torque charts for all 4 spindles: 10k, 10k high torque, 16k and 27k. The 27k has more torque above 10k rpm than the 16k. Below 10k the 16k has a bit more. Not having cts isn't a deal breaker for most applications. The difference for me is the max drill and tap size you can run in various materials with the various spindles. The 10k HT can handle very large drills and taps and the 27k up to about 5/8" in mild steel and 3/4" in 6061.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

That's a crazy deal BROTHERFRANK. I wonder how much of the apparent hesitance towards the 27k spindles is based on actual performance (and lack of CTS) vs a general fear of high speed spindles...

The 27k spindle is one of my favorites. It's been around for over 10 years with 1000s of installations running hard. I was sold when I ran this part in under 4 minutes with 7 tools, 5" osg face mill, 1/2" rougher 1.25" deep, .25" stepover, 1/2" finisher, drill for 58 0-80 tapped holes, 0-80 roll tap, spot drill to chamfer holes and break edges, 3/32" end mill small floor pockets. Part is about 10" x 7". Pocket is 1" deep, outside contour is 1.25" deep. At 27k you don't need special balanced tools with BT30. I recommend the Nikken slim chuck with high speed nut for the highest rpm tools and quality ER chucks for most everything else. I like a side lock end mill holder for the 1/2" rougher. The 27k starts and stops the 5" facemill like a light switch at 8k rpm. It goes from 0 to 27k in .6 seconds with a tool in the spindle. It is remarkable.

 

[mkd]

If you need accuracy and 50,000rpm, there are alternatives. Apologies for my slow backfeed rates.

 

[wheelieking71]

The 27k starts and stops the 5" facemill like a light switch at 8k rpm. It goes from 0 to 27k in .6 seconds with a tool in the spindle. It is remarkable.

This is what is incredible. There is some serious inertia going on there at 5" (hell, at 1" on weight alone).
I'm no engineer, but I do understand physics pretty good. Going on 5 years now, and my 16k Brother still amazes me with the ramp-times.

 

[dstryr]

Would you consider slightly used? A client out here is retiring. Swiss (Citizen) shop primarily. Bought this loaded S700X1 in 2015. Has 7 hours on it. Thought he was going to get into milling but never did. 27k RPM, Yukiwa tilting rotary, Auto door, light curtains, mpg, LED lights, Blum Zpico tool setter, Renishaw spindle probe, auto grease, sub-micron and high accuracy upgrades....$89k

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PM me if interested

I have 2 of these exact same setups running 24/6 with an Erowa Robot Compact 80...


Next to that cell we have 3 s300 16k with the same TNT100 Tilting rotary.... Its a really good productive machine. I had one of the first M140s and sold it to go this direction.

The 27k is my favorite spindle and Ive done some extensive testing with the spindle growth on this machine. We ran a 500 pc job on both machines where we were probing XYZ on a tooling ball and updating a macro position. After an initial 20-30 min cycle the machine moved tenths all day

The specific height of the TNT100 table and the standard brother travels allow you to machine a 100mm envelope about 80mm tall with very short tools at B0 and B90.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

is there any specifics with the 27k spindle, such as warm up time or procedure, and continual run period that's different over a 16k spindle?
I assume there's a spindle chiller on both?
Just curious

The spindle has a software forced warm up when it has been idle for a period of time, about a month as I recall. Other than that they are good to go. If I came in Monday morning and the machine sat all weekend, I would run a 15 minute warm up. Why not? The spindle has an expected life of 10000 hours at 27k, 20000 hours at 24k. We have a client here that has six 27k machines, several have over 25000 hours. He runs a mix of 25k and 27k rpm processes. No chillers on any Brother machines. The 27k does have an air line that circulates air in the spindle casting. In my experience, they will get barely warm at 24k and warmer at 27k.

 

[Jashley73]

This is what is incredible. There is some serious inertia going on there at 5" (hell, at 1" on weight alone).
I'm no engineer, but I do understand physics pretty good. Going on 5 years now, and my 16k Brother still amazes me with the ramp-times.

The 5" face-mill could have an aluminum body. They are fairly common in high-rpm face mill tools.

 

[Orange Vise]

I have 2 of these exact same setups running 24/6

Why're you slacking on the 7th day?

 

[david n]

Why're you slacking on the 7th day?

Sabbath………

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

The 5" face-mill could have an aluminum body.

The OSG Disc Cutter is steel body. It is a lighter design though made specifically for 30 taper machines. Also comes in 4" and 3".

 

[gkoenig]

I assumed the 16k would "probably" have one, and assumed the 27k would "definitely" have one.

The cooler is your compressor!

The 16k is a bit greedy on air. The 27K is a downright glutton; it needs a LOT of air, constantly.

One thing you can do on the 16k machines is a little hacking to only have the spindle air on while the machine is in-cycle. Being designed to go in dirty Shenzhen shitholes, Brother blows air into the spindle 100% of the time when the machine is on. Not really necessary in relatively clean shops, and easy enough to disable. Makes life on your compressor much much much easier.

I wouldn't do that mod on a 27k spindle, but not for any particular reason other than a gut feeling.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

Ref air - I changed the PLC on all my machines so the positive pressure air bleed that blows out the bottom spindle bearing (to stop the coolant being sucked in) only actuated when the spindle was rotated (M3/M4 and hand)...

All Brother spindles have the positive pressure at the spindle face. Not for cooling. This one can be modified to shut off when spindle is idle (or coolant not being used?). The 27k has a second air line for cooling. Maybe this one can be rigged to only come on above 20k rpm and stay on for a time after high rpm running? All shops should be running with clean dry air.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

This is what is incredible. There is some serious inertia going on there at 5". Going on 5 years now, and my 16k Brother still amazes me with the ramp-times.

For sure, I have been running Brother machines for 25 years and they still get my heart pumping!

 

[gustafson]

On my machine the air runs when the air is on, regardless of power on or off, same with my DMG

It certainly does use air, but I don't consider it outrageous

 

[mkd]

Some a machines have cooling systems that rival the size of the machine itself and have flow through the base, the spindle housing and in highly optioned circumstances, the spindle shaft it's self. They have verifiable micron level thermal 'growth'. Apologies for interrupting the Brother love fest. lol

 

[DavidScott]

Some a machines have cooling systems that rival the size of the machine itself and have flow through the base, the spindle housing and in highly optioned circumstances, the spindle shaft it's self. They have verifiable micron level thermal 'growth'. Apologies for interrupting the Brother love fest. lol

It just depends on what the machine is designed to do, production machining or tool and die. Brothers are production machining, no ifs, ands, buts, or compromises.

Keep in mind you mess with the spindle purge and you void the warranty, or so I have been told.

 

[gkoenig]

Keep in mind you mess with the spindle purge and you void the warranty, or so I have been told.

I think I know most of the history on about 50 Speedios in service across the country. I've never heard of a Speedio spindle having a problem that would require warranty intervention. In fact, I can't recall ever seeing any warranty issue with the core machine itself - accessories bolted onto it? Sure, but the machine as-delievered from Kariya? I'm sure it happens, but I've literally never heard of it.

 

[Orange Vise]

Kariya

Good bbq there.

 

[Mtndew]

but the machine as-delievered from Kariya?

Don't you mean Japan?

 

[Jashley73]

Don't you mean Japan?

Kariya (刈谷市, Kariya-shi) is a city in central Aichi Prefecture, Japan.

Kariya, Aichi - Wikipedia


Kariya looks like a half-hour drive from Nagoya, where Brother Industries is headquartered.