Derating Mazak Spindle

[Fal Grunt]

I was wrong the machine is a 89' T2, so if anyone has specifics on parameters to change, it would be appreciated.

We were supposed to go up friday to look at the machine, but the seller could not get it to turn on. Apparently the batteries went dead in storage so they have to reload parameters.

Anything else we should take a look at since it has been offline/in storage for several years?

 

[cnctoolcat]

Is this a parameter setting? Not sure I've seen that before.

Yes, rapid maximums are set by parameter. For the T2, it is the "RF" parameter in the X and Z columns. (RF stands for "rapid feed", you can help decipher some T2 parameters that way.)

Remember the parameters are in metric, so you have to convert to get IPM's.

Not sure what the exact machine parameter for maximum rapids is on the T32 and T+, but most axis-specific machine parameters are in column-format under X and Z.

For the T32, the main spindle accel/decel is machine parameter SP19. Factory set at 300, I set mine at 3,000 or more to really get a nice, smooth spindle start and stop.

The T32 machines had 1,181 IPM rapids, so you could convert that to metric and zero-in on the specific X & Z rapid parameters, which will be near the top of the X & Z columns. (I've got them at work somewhere...can update later this week.)

ToolCat

 

[Philabuster]

Yes, rapid maximums are set by parameter. For the T2, it is the "RF" parameter in the X and Z columns. (The parameters are in metric, so you have to convert to get IPM's.)

Not sure what the exact machine parameter for maximum rapids is on the T32 and T+, but most axis-specific machine parameters are in column-format under X and Z.

The T32 machines had 1,181 IPM rapids, so you could convert that to metric and zero-in on the specific X & Z parameter if necessary. (I've got them at work somewhere...can update later this week.)

ToolCat

Yes, I also slowed my axis drives as well. Forgot about that one.

 

[Philabuster]

I was wrong the machine is a 89' T2, so if anyone has specifics on parameters to change, it would be appreciated.

We were supposed to go up friday to look at the machine, but the seller could not get it to turn on. Apparently the batteries went dead in storage so they have to reload parameters.

Anything else we should take a look at since it has been offline/in storage for several years?

The batteries will be dead and need to be replaced. That also means the parameters will need to be reloaded by hand (takes about 30 minutes to key them in). If you do not have a copy of the parameters, you will need to get them before the machine will be operational.

For the T-2 control, the spindle acceleration is controlled by small DIP switches on the circuit board of the spindle VFD located in the electrical cabinet. I will find the page in the manual to show you which switches to adjust for a given acceleration rate. Takes about 5 minutes to adjust only because you need to remove and replace a cover panel to gain access to the switches. Easy peasy.

 

[Fal Grunt]

The machinery dealer is supposed to be replacing the battery and reloading all the parameters before we come up. So in theory it should be all functional when we get there.

Appreciate the help everyone!

 

[Philabuster]

The machinery dealer is supposed to be replacing the battery and reloading all the parameters before we come up. So in theory it should be all functional when we get there.

Appreciate the help everyone!

There are at least 2 batteries and sometimes 3 batteries depending on the options of the control. These are rechargeable batteries so they are not replaced very often. The old ones were NiCad whereas the new ones should be NiMH chemistry.

Biggest thing is to make damn sure you have the internal transformer set to the actual input voltage you have and also correctly phase the machine incoming power. There is a green LED on the spindle VFD that will light up if the incoming power is phased correctly. The electronics in this machine DO NOT tolerate too high of incoming voltage. There is a wiring diagram on the inside of the transformer cover to show how to strap the transformer for the voltage.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Well we decided to get the lathe. It is a VERY clean machine for a 1989, everything is in really nice shape, seemed pretty repeatable from the few tests we did, the turret is a little out, but that is a topic for another thread. Tool eye works, everything seems to work.

Frankly I'm jealous. I told my friend if he didn't buy it I would. I've always wanted a QT10 or QT15. We were very lucky that the machinery dealer I know offered it to me before it was listed. I definitely have them to thank, otherwise we would likely have never had the chance.

Phil, my friend found your youtube channel, and gives his thanks! He has never run a mazak, and bought this one simply on my word.

An added bonus, the lathe has a full set of manuals, including a "classroom" manual that at a quick glance should get him up and running. The biggest headache will be that everything has to be setup since the machine lost its parameters. I unfortunately won't be any help with that, all the mazaks I ran were already setup.

He is still trying to decide whether to get a 30hp or 40hp phase converter, I've encouraged him to get the 40 that way when he adds the Fadal he wants, he will have enough juice to run both.

 

[cnctoolcat]

The biggest headache will be that everything has to be setup since the machine lost its parameters.

Depending on control revision, the Mazatrol T2 control only has 3 or 4 pages of parameters! (Versus 15-20+ pages for T32/T-Plus controls)

So, with a hardcopy of the parameters (should be in the electrical manual, inside the rear electrical cabinet, or Mazak can provide), you can hand-enter all them in a T2 machine in just a few minutes.

A few of the T2 parameters can be machine-specific, such as the Tool Eye calibration, but a standard list of the parameters should be close enough to get his QT15 going.

ToolCat

 

[mmurray70]

For anyone else working with limited power supply, i found another little trick this weekend. I was running my Mazak QT10, fadal 4020 and haas SL30 all at same time (35hp phase converter on 100a breaker) and ended up getting a low voltage alarm on the mill once.

The Haas shows the exact KW used by spindle and I realized that sometimes the load was considerably higher for a second when the spindle was still ramping up due to CSS and cutting the same time. Makes sense, you have the full load of the spindle changing speed, plus the load of cutting too. I was only cutting aluminum so i just adjusted CSS and Max speed so that it basically starts spindle and maintains max speed through whole program. Made big difference in peak current.

 

[Pete Deal]

I have the same machine (t2 qt15). I have a 30hp am rotary rpc. I also have two brother mills. I often run the mazak and one of the Brothers. Never a problem. I think my mazak is on a 60a breaker but can’t remember. I’ve never run all three but do run other misc three phase loads ( like my cutoff saw) at the same time as the two cnc machines run. I did reduce the spindle accel/ decel down some on the mazak.

I replaced my mazak board mounted nicads with rechargeable phone pack nicads that plug into a little wire that i soldered to the boards.

 

[Cole2534]

I replaced my mazak board mounted nicads with rechargeable phone pack nicads that plug into a little wire that i soldered to the boards.

Can this be done without losing all parameters?

 

[Philabuster]

Can this be done without losing all parameters?

On a T-2 control, there are capacitors on the boards that give you approx 10 minutes time to replace the batteries without loosing the parameters.

 

[Pete Deal]

I think i just bit the bullet and re-entered the parameters when I changed the battery setup. It’s a pain but not that horrible of a process for that machine. The biggest thing is to make sure you have them written down.

Or maybe I did just solder the harness on. Can’t remember. If it’s all made up it’s really no more difficult than soldering a new battery pack on.

In my opinion it’s very worth doing. With the board mounted batteries it seemed i was often getting warnings of low battery if the machine sat a while. The next time I change the batteries I’m going to switch from cordless phone batteries to a little plastic three cell holder for AA nicads.

 

[cnctoolcat]

On a T-2 control, there are capacitors on the boards that give you approx 10 minutes time to replace the batteries without loosing the parameters.

This.

However! I have had boards not hold the parameters, and lost them when changing the batteries. Like other electrolytics, I think the onboard capacitor goes bad or gets weak over a couple/three decades.

So when changing batteries, it's best-practice to make sure you have all your programs, tool data, and parameters backed-up. "MazView" is the cheapest software that works, and is great to upload/download between the machine and laptop. You can not edit programs offline with MazView, but you can view and print them.

ToolCat

 

[Cole2534]

This.

However! I have had boards not hold the parameters, and lost them when changing the batteries. Like other electrolytics, I think the onboard capacitor goes bad or gets weak over a couple/three decades.

So when changing batteries, it's best-practice to make sure you have all your programs, tool data, and parameters backed-up. "MazView" is the cheapest software that works, and is great to upload/download between the machine and laptop. You can not edit programs offline with MazView, but you can view and print them.

ToolCat

Sounds like I need to record my parameters, tool/prog data is easy enough to replicate. Some pics will probably be sufficient.

I think i just bit the bullet and re-entered the parameters when I changed the battery setup. It’s a pain but not that horrible of a process for that machine. The biggest thing is to make sure you have them written down.

Or maybe I did just solder the harness on. Can’t remember. If it’s all made up it’s really no more difficult than soldering a new battery pack on.

In my opinion it’s very worth doing. With the board mounted batteries it seemed i was often getting warnings of low battery if the machine sat a while. The next time I change the batteries I’m going to switch from cordless phone batteries to a little plastic three cell holder for AA nicads.

Good idea.

On a T-2 control, there are capacitors on the boards that give you approx 10 minutes time to replace the batteries without loosing the parameters.

Interesting, thanks!

 

[Ox]

Yeah, I lost all once when changing batts on a Siemens that was board mounted.
(Have/had a Mits the same way too)
What a moronic way of dooing business!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Philabuster]

The next time I change the batteries I’m going to switch from cordless phone batteries to a little plastic three cell holder for AA nicads.

I upgraded both of my machines to 3 AA battery packs loaded with Eneloop NiMH batteries. Best thing ever.

 

[Ox]

Why can't we just get a receiver for a Milwaukee batt pack?
Sheesh!

I've got EGO too, but those may be a bit overkill....


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Philabuster]

Why can't we just get a receiver for a Milwaukee batt pack?
Sheesh!

I've got EGO too, but those may be a bit overkill....


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

The AA Eneloops are WAY overkill for the Mazaks with the T-2 control (1986 to 1989). The original NiCDs were 260 MAh vs 2,000 MAh for the AA Eneloops. This means the machine can sit powered off for a LONG time and not have to worry about it.

 

[Cole2534]

The AA Eneloops are WAY overkill for the Mazaks with the T-2 control (1986 to 1989). The original NiCDs were 260 MAh vs 2,000 MAh for the AA Eneloops. This means the machine can sit powered off for a LONG time and not have to worry about it.

If your Youtube channel needs some content, that'd be interesting to see.