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Determining which parts are compatible with my wards lathe 14tlc-699, 700

a_bird

Plastic
Joined
Oct 5, 2023
Hey, I am new to the forum and interested in learning to run and restore my new-to-me manual lathe (perhaps point me to some good threads?). I acquired it from my now deceased coworker before he passed. I believe it could use an overhaul when I get some time but perhaps the first place to start is determining which lathe parts it is compatible with for instance I am not sure I have all the change gears but I do have quite a few attachments and tooling. I don't know how to search for parts since the model is too specific. It has serial number 6886 on the bed just between the flat and v ways at the tail stock end. It also came with a manual which is probably the best clue. The title on the manual is "Wards, Powr-Kraft Metal Late model No. 14tlc-699, -700" though which of the two sub models I was unable to determine. I can confirm it has 1 1/2" - 8 thread on the spindle since it has an old atlas chuck on it. I have checked the run out on it and its pretty good though it has quite a few dings in the bed. Does anyone know where I could buy new jaws for the atlas ab-435 chuck that is on it or is it worthwhile to get a nicer chuck? Those jaws have seen better days! So far I have only used it for some pretty basic projects on soft materials but it seems to be asking me to spend more time with it and maybe clean it up a bit. Not sure where to start.

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What a pretty little lathe ...looks well kept .........be a bit careful of the reversing switch in front of the head .......they have all open contacts inside ,and personally I would only touch the plastic knob...not the metal............goes double if its three phase.
 
What a pretty little lathe ...looks well kept .........be a bit careful of the reversing switch in front of the head .......they have all open contacts inside ,and personally I would only touch the plastic knob...not the metal............goes double if its three phase.
Thanks for the tip! I did take that apart to see how it works. Its definitely time to add a grounded plug to it at the very least. But so far I haven't gotten a shock. I have been shocked by my table saw before though. Definitely not good.
 
I'm pretty sure what you have is a Logan so go here for info http://lathes.co.uk/logan/index.html

and here for parts https://store.lathe.com/
Thanks! I searched around thinking it might be a logan but so far the serial number hadn't seemed to match. It does look like the one on the Montgomery Ward page on the Logan site. Perhaps there is not much difference between the 699 and 700. If the one on that page http://lathes.co.uk/logan/page3.html is a 700. It looks very close to the one I have and does match the manual I have as well.
 
There is a huge amount of information on Logan lathes here, including free downloads of printed literature:


For compatibility, first seek out items for Logan or Wards lathes of the same swing as what you have. Is it 10 inches? If the spindle nose is 1-1/2"-8, then you can also search on that thread size for chucks and such. If the tailstock is 2 Morse taper, just search on that type for tailstock chucks and centers.

Larry
 
You have what seems to be a Logan-made W-699. It is 10" swing, 24" between centers, takes just over 3/4" through the spindle, has an MT3 taper in the spindle, and MT2 in the tailstock, with a 43" bed. The 699 and 700 are the same in all those characteristics, I don't know what if anything is different between them.

Almost the same as a model 200 (one of the lathes here is a 200) , except it has a different drive system; open countershaft, where the 200 has the "drive box" covered belt system.

All of the accessories for a 10" should fit it, and some of those for an 11" will fit as well. A lot of accessories for a Southbend 9" or Atlas will fit as well, other than those that attach on the bed.

Don't waste much time looking for chuck jaws, you are better off replacing it if the jaws are that bad. Jaws for chucks that old are pretty much not findable. If the jaws are worn loose, the slots in the chuck body may be worn loose as well.

If it is just the gripping faces of the jaws that are worn, you can re-grind them to usability right on the machine.

Table of Logan model numbers and basic characteristics:

 
Thanks JST, a 10'' Logan was my first lathe, but it was a beater, with almost as many ''Sami parts'' as original Logan ones - not a pretty sight!😱😱😱😱😱 ...... but it did the job and made me money to boot.
 
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You have what seems to be a Logan-made W-699. It is 10" swing, 24" between centers, takes just over 3/4" through the spindle, has an MT3 taper in the spindle, and MT2 in the tailstock, with a 43" bed. The 699 and 700 are the same in all those characteristics, I don't know what if anything is different between them.

Almost the same as a model 200 (one of the lathes here is a 200) , except it has a different drive system; open countershaft, where the 200 has the "drive box" covered belt system.

All of the accessories for a 10" should fit it, and some of those for an 11" will fit as well. A lot of accessories for a Southbend 9" or Atlas will fit as well, other than those that attach on the bed.

Don't waste much time looking for chuck jaws, you are better off replacing it if the jaws are that bad. Jaws for chucks that old are pretty much not findable. If the jaws are worn loose, the slots in the chuck body may be worn loose as well.

If it is just the gripping faces of the jaws that are worn, you can re-grind them to usability right on the machine.

Table of Logan model numbers and basic characteristics:

All great advice. Thanks so much for all the info you provided!

I do have the other jaws for that chuck that grip the outside so perhaps I will just set it up for gripping with the outside jaws and get a newer chuck. The jaws aren't loose but it seems that they had been in a few accidents before my ownership and some are smeared over a little bit so they don't hold small work well. I will look into setting up a tool post grinder and cleaning up my jaws in the meantime. One is pretty battered... Maybe they will be a little better for the time being.

So besides checking the run out on the spindle and tail stock and making the adjustments to the tail stock to get it true center to center, what would be some good services for me to perform on this old lathe? I don't think I want to refinish it yet. I rather like the classic patina and want to use the lathe so I am more concerned with properly lubricating things and adjusting shims where it makes sense so that it performs well.
 
Instead of chucks for small work,look into using collets .
Ah yes. I need to find the draw bar or perhaps make one. That is a great idea. I made a simple hollow tube with a slit along the side to hold one small project. Then I realized I could made use of some collets to be sure.
 
On my Hardinge 9" lathes, I use 6" PBI Setrite chucks for holding large work. The lathes take 5C collets without needing an adapter, and those are used for most work under 1.06 or so inches. But I also have Buck 4" Ajust-Tru chucks that I like for in-between size work.

As for grinding hard jaws to true up a three jaw chuck, it is important, as with sizing soft jaws, to preload the jaws in the appropriate direction. Leaving the jaws loose in the chuck just will not work for grinding the jaws true. Preloading one-piece hard jaws is not a simple task. I once saw a picture of a commercial tool for the purpose, but have never seen the actual tool for sale, so I made my own to fit a particular size chuck. I was learning to use my new flux-core wire welder at the time and the resulting weld was at all pretty. But the tool, made from four large steel flat washers, did a great job of correctly preloading the jaws.

For collets in a 10" Logan, I suggest 3C rather than 3AT. They are very similar, but the 3C are more plentiful, whether new or used, including inch and metric sizes and even hex and square. You need an adapter that fits the 3MT taper in the spindle nose to adapt to collets, along with a threaded collar that is required to eject the collet adapter when you want to mount a chuck on the spindle. I suspect a South Bend 9" collet adapter and collar will fit a Logan. Atlas made similar parts for their 3AT collets, but I advise against getting one of those.

The draw bar probably is specific to the model of Logan you have. I once made a draw bar for a Hardinge lathe with 4C collets from scratch, including drilling out a solid bar of steel. It took a while, but the result was good. You will not find a .645-26 tap for 3C collets if you make a draw bar. It will have to be single pointed and you will have to have a steady rest if you use the Logan to make it.

Larry

Chuck jaw preloader 2.JPG

Chuck jaw preloader 1.JPG
 
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On my Hardinge 9" lathes, I use 6" PBI Setrite chucks for holding large work. The lathes take 5C collets without needing an adapter, and those are used for most work under 1.06 or so inches. But I also have Buck 4" Ajust-Tru chucks that I like for in-between size work.

As for grinding hard jaws to true up a three jaw chuck, it is important, as with sizing soft jaws, to preload the jaws in the appropriate direction. Leaving the jaws loose in the chuck just will not work for grinding the jaws true. Preloading one-piece hard jaws is not a simple task. I once saw a picture of a commercial tool for the purpose, but have never seen the actual tool for sale, so I made my own to fit a particular size chuck. I was learning to use my new flux-core wire welder at the time and the resulting weld was at all pretty. But the tool, made from four large steel flat washers, did a great job of correctly preloading the jaws.

For collets in a 10" Logan, I suggest 3C rather than 3AT. They are very similar, but the 3C are more plentiful, whether new or used, including inch and metric sizes and even hex and square. You need an adapter that fits the 3MT taper in the spindle nose to adapt to collets, along with a threaded collar that is required to eject the collet adapter when you want to mount a chuck on the spindle. I suspect a South Bend 9" collet adapter and collar will fit a Logan. Atlas made similar parts for their 3AT collets, but I advise against getting one of those.

The draw bar probably is specific to the model of Logan you have. I once made a draw bar for a Hardinge lathe with 4C collets from scratch, including drilling out a solid bar of steel. It took a while, but the result was good. You will not find a .645-26 tap for 3C collets if you make a draw bar. It will have to be single pointed and you will have to have a steady rest if you use the Logan to make it.

Larry

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Thanks for the pics! I would not have immediately thought of preloading it though I am sure it would be obvious that something went wrong next time I turned something in the chuck :) Thanks for the pics. I run a cnc router for work so I will draw up something similar to what you show in your pics and cut it from some scrap .250 inch sheet from the recycling bin. Would you recommend making a holder for a die grinder that mounts to the compound? then guide it in carefully?
 
I would not expect a die grinder to grind chuck jaws true. You need precise spindle bearings, a very rigid means of mounting a solidly made smooth-running grinder and a means of truing the grinding wheel on the lathe. Yes, I bought an electric die grinder on an OEM lathe mount for a lathe I owned many years ago. It did not do usable work. I spent the large amount of cash required to buy a Themac tool post grinder and got good results. I very seldom do any grinding on my lathes in the interest of keeping them clean and prolonging their life.

I would rather buy a new Chinese 3-jaw chuck with 1-1/2-8 adapter and hope for decent accuracy than try to salvage an old chuck by grinding. I think the odds favor the new chuck.

Larry
 
I use a Dremel, and it does fine if you are careful to "spark it out" so that it is not cutting before you quit. It's not like the 3 jaw is very precise anyhow, and I would only use the grinding setup to correct jaws that are bell mouthed, or have scoring on the faces, not to get better centering.

I tried one of those tools as in the pics above, but I did not like it. It seemed to be extremely sensitive to exact dimensions, so that it did not side-load the jaws.

Instead, I did what Rich Carlstedt suggested, I drilled the top of the jaws for pins, and closed them on a ring. Worked great, and the position of the holes is not very critical at all, just get them more-or-less in the middle of the jaw top.

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