Diy black powder

[challenger]

I'm making BP from 3 ingredients with one being homemade charcoal. I have a vibratory tumbler that I plan on using to reduce the grain size of the mix and I have 2 questions :
How will using the vibratory unit compare to the, more popular, rotary rock polishing unit?
I have some 1/2" triangular ceramic media. Would this be better, or worse, than lead ball media?
Thanks

 

[john.k]

Simple ..try it and find out .....I think its usual to mill the charcoal and sulfur together ......some have tried milling all three ,but dont do that in the house ..........incidentally ,be sure you are using pure chemicals ......a whole lot of the ingredients in common use are actually adulterated to stop gunpowder makers,..........for instance sulfur ...bag sulfur is 10% inert material ,enough to ruin gunpowder.

 

[Sharps1874]

I can't answer your question, but I recall my friends and I making crude blackpowder as pre-teens. I don't think it was very explosive, but we made neat, little rockets by rolling it in aluminum foil. I've always wondered what the pharmacist thought an 11-year-old was doing buying sulfur and potassium nitrate in one-pound containers. But he sold it to me without asking!

 

[challenger]

Simple ..try it and find out .....I think its usual to mill the charcoal and sulfur together ......some have tried milling all three ,but dont do that in the house ..........incidentally ,be sure you are using pure chemicals ......a whole lot of the ingredients in common use are actually adulterated to stop gunpowder makers,..........for instance sulfur ...bag sulfur is 10% inert material ,enough to ruin gunpowder.

I plan on mixing up the three ingredients and then ball milling in my shop or outside. I have read the 90% works just fine. Just add a tiny bit more sulphur. I have to try it because pure sulphur is difficult to obtain and is expensive.

 

[cyanidekid]

when messing with potentially explosive materials the utmost caution is advisable especially when employing unusual or untested methods or materials.
I have no experience milling black powder, but using a vibratory unit with ceramic media should be considered experimental and done in a safe outdoor area with a explosion berm surrounding it unless strong data suggests otherwise.

 

[mhajicek]

I've always wondered what the pharmacist thought an 11-year-old was doing buying sulfur and potassium nitrate in one-pound containers.

Pretty sure they could figure that out!

 

[Borealis]

I can't answer your question, but I recall my friends and I making crude blackpowder as pre-teens. I don't think it was very explosive, but we made neat, little rockets by rolling it in aluminum foil. I've always wondered what the pharmacist thought an 11-year-old was doing buying sulfur and potassium nitrate in one-pound containers. But he sold it to me without asking!

Having grown up in a university town and knowing a friendly professor of chemistry was a bit of a help. He appreciated my pyrotechnic interests that were going strong by 4th grade. One key he gave to improving results was wetting everything together to dissolve the oxidizer salts, which then permeate into the grains of the insoluble ingredients. After drying and re-milling (very carefully, obviously) the speed of the mixture is *dramatically* higher. Just sayin'.

 

[john.k]

If you want blackpowder that actually works in a gun,I suggest you check out the gun forums ......there is a whole lot more to it than just mixing three chemicals........as an aside ,I would think milling all three in your setup will result in an unwanted pyro technic event...........the usual method is to incorporate the nitre as a wet component,and even the wet slurry can 'go off'.......I cant be specific ,because its a criminal offence to instruct in the making of explosives online.

 

[Borealis]

If you want blackpowder that actually works in a gun,I suggest you check out the gun forums ......there is a whole lot more to it than just mixing three chemicals........as an aside ,I would think milling all three in your setup will result in an unwanted pyro technic event...........the usual method is to incorporate the nitre as a wet component,and even the wet slurry can 'go off'.......I cant be specific ,because its a criminal offence to instruct in the making of explosives online.

Over here, we thankfully don't have these sorts of restrictions.

Wet chemistry is a good deal of interesting for people who respect the art. The chemistry literature is loaded with clear instructions for synthesizing pretty much everything, from novelties like nitrogen triiodide to industrially-important things like tetrazine. Never have I heard of a chemist going to prison for publishing a paper on some new approach to nitrating a substance. Seeing as BP is the oldest of the old and the instructions for making it have been published for hundreds of years, I doubt anyone can get in much trouble for describing the process.

 

[john.k]

All very true......but I dont want plod kicking the door down......they have an interesting technique here .....everywhere they find 'suspected' material,they set small charges ,blow your house apart,then say on the news "See ,the house was full of terrorist explosives"

 

[Scottl]

Having grown up in a university town and knowing a friendly professor of chemistry was a bit of a help. He appreciated my pyrotechnic interests that were going strong by 4th grade. One key he gave to improving results was wetting everything together to dissolve the oxidizer salts, which then permeate into the grains of the insoluble ingredients. After drying and re-milling (very carefully, obviously) the speed of the mixture is *dramatically* higher. Just sayin'.

Yes, I always understood that the historical method was always mixed wet and then dried. With an ignition temperature of about 170°F it could be dried on a rack well above a heat source.

 

[Scottl]

All very true......but I dont want plod kicking the door down......they have an interesting technique here .....everywhere they find 'suspected' material,they set small charges ,blow your house apart,then say on the news "See ,the house was full of terrorist explosives"

Funny you mention that. Very often here the news says "the device was taken away and safely exploded" but neglect to say it was placed in a pit with high explosives attached first.

 

[challenger]

So it's suggested that the three ingredients be milled while wet?
Probably good advice but I think I'll mill dry and just place my vibratory tumbler outside and away from my shop.
I'm still trying to find out if my ceramic media will be OK or should I use lead balls?

 

[jim rozen]

"placed in a pit with high explosives attached first."

Rodman's Neck.

 

[FredC]

Others have expressed safety concerns. Those concerns may be well founded. One more concern to add to the mix. The triangular stones I use are ceramic and do absorb liquid. I have stones I use in soap and water type compounds and others used exclusively with kerosine. If you mix them the combination of soap and kerosine makes a milky mess.
If your stones absorb a nitrogen rich liquid what does that do to your ratios? Will the stones be explosive pouring them dry from one container to another?
Another issue is the abrasive sloughing off from your stones will it abrade your barrels?
We do use porcelain stones for burnishing parts (angle cut cylinders), I do not think they absorb liquids. Cannot prove it though.

 

[reggie_obe]

Simple ..try it and find out .....I think its usual to mill the charcoal and sulfur together ......some have tried milling all three ,but dont do that in the house ..........incidentally ,be sure you are using pure chemicals ......a whole lot of the ingredients in common use are actually adulterated to stop gunpowder makers,..........for instance sulfur ...bag sulfur is 10% inert material ,enough to ruin gunpowder.

True if you sulfur is from an Ag, source and not a chemical supply.

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[72bwhite]

Needs to be done wet
grain size is important unless you want to blow stuff up
that’s why you have the different grades, the larger the grain size the slower the burn

if you load your cannon with ffff good chance it will be a bomb
put f cannon powder in your flash pan and it might not even light
gunpowder is a relatively simple mix but a great deal of trial and error went in to
making a reliable contestant product.

 

[john.k]

My comment would be ...what if your ceramic media strike sparks ,what if the media generate static charge?.......lead balls would certainly be safer ,but probably wear quickly ,and contaminate the mix.

 

[GGaskill]

Lead balls will wear and contaminate the end product to the point it will be of poor or useless quality. Ideally you would use stainless steel balls.

And use balls and a drum. You want to crush the materials, not abrade them; most likely you don't want really fine particles (you don't give a use or grade.)

 

[challenger]

Others have expressed safety concerns. Those concerns may be well founded. One more concern to add to the mix. The triangular stones I use are ceramic and do absorb liquid. I have stones I use in soap and water type compounds and others used exclusively with kerosine. If you mix them the combination of soap and kerosine makes a milky mess.
If your stones absorb a nitrogen rich liquid what does that do to your ratios? Will the stones be explosive pouring them dry from one container to another?
Another issue is the abrasive sloughing off from your stones will it abrade your barrels?
We do use porcelain stones for burnishing parts (angle cut cylinders), I do not think they absorb liquids. Cannot prove it though.

I ended up using lead balls. Ran for 6 hours and the powder is perfect. Lights easily and is the consistency a little finer than corn starch.
Im not using this for a rifle or pistol.