DN Solutions vs Leadwell vs Takisawa vs DMG Mori

[NAST555]

Do you not want a Puma with a 12 station turret at least? Is that readily available over there?

Just got back from the Drakensburg for a bit of a long weekend.
I will ask the sales rep when I chat to him this week.

On the Good way. They have put in at least 200 machines in the country so far and have proof of it. Apparently 30 lathes of similar size to what they quoted me on.

On the Takisawa. I think the newer one's are made in Taiwan. I haven't seen many newer ones here but about 10 years ago a company up the road replaced a flat bed Wasino (which we bought for scrap value, ran it for a bit and a board blew, a Tech took a board out and literally disappeared off the face of the planet, so we parted it out.) with a new slant Takisawa and they were not impressed with the power that it had. It had a 8" chuck and that is all that I can remember from it. It is in the upper half of the price range of the machines that I have mentioned so far. The leadwell is pricier but it is a bigger machine.

@gregormarwick The doosan is in the middle price wise after getting more quotes.

 

[Comatose]

Surprised noone commented on the Takisawa machines yet.
That brand is on the very top of the list for my next potential 8" machine and I'm genuinely curious to hear something about them.
They are Japanese built from what I understand, and if they're anything like the other 3 true Japan made lathes I already own, I would not be concerned with a little extra on the pricetag.

Good components. Poor integration. Not like the other Japanese machines you've owned.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Whoa, when did that happen?

The whole company or just the US sales division?

The US division. It may have reorganized or have a different importer now. I knew someone who worked for them, and one day it went "poof" - and they were tossing documentation into the dumpsters.

 

[Mtndew]

I got a quote from a dealer for "GOOD WAY". Anyone have experience with their machines?

If it were me, I would steer clear of any brand that you have to ask that question of and stick with Doosan, Okuma, or any other well known brand that is well established.

 

[finix]

Just got back from the Drakensburg for a bit of a long weekend.
I will ask the sales rep when I chat to him this week.

On the Good way. They have put in at least 200 machines in the country so far and have proof of it. Apparently 30 lathes of similar size to what they quoted me on.

On the Takisawa. I think the newer one's are made in Taiwan. I haven't seen many newer ones here but about 10 years ago a company up the road replaced a flat bed Wasino (which we bought for scrap value, ran it for a bit and a board blew, a Tech took a board out and literally disappeared off the face of the planet, so we parted it out.) with a new slant Takisawa and they were not impressed with the power that it had. It had a 8" chuck and that is all that I can remember from it. It is in the upper half of the price range of the machines that I have mentioned so far. The leadwell is pricier but it is a bigger machine.

@gregormarwick The doosan is in the middle price wise after getting more quotes.

If it were me, I would steer clear of any brand that you have to ask that question of and stick with Doosan, Okuma, or any other well known brand that is well established.

Two of the guys who work for me used to assemble various types of lathes at Goodway, one even worked there for 15 years, they didn't have too many great things to say. Some interesting practices were employed to get machines out the door especially when orders were full. They've probably put 200 machines within a 15 minute drive radius from our factory and I still wouldn't touch them. Never met a single person that told me their Goodway machines were great, best I've ever heard is 'it does its job for the price I pay.' However for example Victor or Taiwan Takisawa every so often somebody tells you they've got a few and those machines are super solid and they'll keep buying more.

 

[Orange Vise]

On the Takisawa. I think the newer one's are made in Taiwan.

I believe there are two divisions that are branded differently. One is Takisawa, and the other is actually named Taiwan Takisawa.

 

[SeymourDumore]

Good components. Poor integration. Not like the other Japanese machines you've owned.

Are you talking abut Takisawa or Takisawa Taiwan?
Not sure about the actual relationship, but the offerings are not the same as far as I can tell.

As far as integration, I'm not sure what you mean.
I only need a plane-jane 2ax lathe, no bells, no whistles, not even a chip conveyer or barfeeder, just a tailstock and a large enough turret to clear an 8" chuck.

 

[Garwood]

Older Takisawa stuff is good, but not great.

Takisawa is a lot like Doosan IMO. Pretty ok, but not every detail is perfect the more options you add.

 

[Comatose]

Are you talking abut Takisawa or Takisawa Taiwan?
Not sure about the actual relationship, but the offerings are not the same as far as I can tell.

As far as integration, I'm not sure what you mean.
I only need a plane-jane 2ax lathe, no bells, no whistles, not even a chip conveyer or barfeeder, just a tailstock and a large enough turret to clear an 8" chuck.

Japan. I have a ts-4000ys. It makes parts. But, for example, I have had to slow the turret rotation down by a factor of four to have it actually index reliably without throwing an error, and even with that, I have to balance the tools around the turret. It comes with a fanuc 32i, which is a pretty nice control. But that 32i comes with a whopping ONE megabyte of program storage, and I bought it in the mid 2010s.

The one three ring binder manual it came with is the most lacking, engrish manual I have ever received, and I have direct imported machines from China.

It makes parts and holds tolerances, it's just compared to the other Japanese machines I have (Okuma, Brother, Epson, Nikken, others) the level of "everything here was thought out and works together" just isn't there.

It's the difference between a fixture that you would make to use in your shop and a fixture that you would sell as a product, if that makes sense.

 

[Comatose]

There are things I like about it, too. Okuma,for example, goes out of their way to gimp their controls and then tries to sell things that should be basic functionality back to you as options. Takisawa doesn't take that time, which is nice.

 

[Orange Vise]

Japan. I have a ts-4000ys. It makes parts. But, for example, I have had to slow the turret rotation down by a factor of four to have it actually index reliably without throwing an error, and even with that, I have to balance the tools around the turret. It comes with a fanuc 32i, which is a pretty nice control. But that 32i comes with a whopping ONE megabyte of program storage, and I bought it in the mid 2010s.

The one three ring binder manual it came with is the most lacking, engrish manual I have ever received, and I have direct imported machines from China.

It makes parts and holds tolerances, it's just compared to the other Japanese machines I have (Okuma, Brother, Epson, Nikken, others) the level of "everything here was thought out and works together" just isn't there.

It's the difference between a fixture that you would make to use in your shop and a fixture that you would sell as a product, if that makes sense.

Good info. Thanks for sharing, as the TS line is on my radar.

When it comes to unpolished functionality, our Haas lathes take top honors. They actually make great parts and are pretty decent in a lot of ways, but the subspindle homing routine relies on a cheap roller limit switch that's exposed to coolant and oil. It gets stuck sooner than later and causes the machine to home incorrectly, i.e. the B-axis position can be off in either direction by an entire encoder revolution, +/- 0.250". Needless to say, when you don't know where your subspindle is, crashing it is an inevitability, through absolutely no fault of your own. Easy workaround, IF you remember to verify B-axis position every time the power gets cycled, but still beyond stupid.

 

[Ox]

Japan. I have a ts-4000ys. It makes parts. But, for example, I have had to slow the turret rotation down by a factor of four to have it actually index reliably without throwing an error, and even with that, I have to balance the tools around the turret. It comes with a fanuc 32i, which is a pretty nice control. But that 32i comes with a whopping ONE megabyte of program storage, and I bought it in the mid 2010s.

The one three ring binder manual it came with is the most lacking, engrish manual I have ever received, and I have direct imported machines from China.

It makes parts and holds tolerances, it's just compared to the other Japanese machines I have (Okuma, Brother, Epson, Nikken, others) the level of "everything here was thought out and works together" just isn't there.

It's the difference between a fixture that you would make to use in your shop and a fixture that you would sell as a product, if that makes sense.

I would like to think that a 31 would have thew ability to cache' much code. I really don't know how your 1Mg compares with mine? (how many feet in a mg? ) But still, a lathe (even a Y axis) typically doesn't have code nearly as long as a 3D mill program, so my bet is that you could ask Fanuc for an upgrade.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Comatose]

Oh, I'm certain I could expand the memory. It hasn't been a real issue yet, but it just comes off looking shabby compared to the Okuma next to it, from which I have never had to delete a program in the entire time I have owned it.

It's not a bad machine. I would rate all the component parts as pretty good or better. It just feel like, compared to the best of the breed, it needed 10% more time in the oven.

I suspect that it's really designed for the sort of place where it's installed as a turn-key solution by an engineer from the factory, and then makes one part its whole life.

 

[NAST555]

Had a look at the Good way today. Decent small machine, ran it a bit. Fanuc Oi TF. Nothing fancy but nothing that looked bad to me either. Linear guides. Also had a quick look at a PUMA 10S (I think) that is being rebuilt. Looks like a solid machine but is a bit old.

I spotted the Victor agency in the same road as the good way so decided to pop in. Going to get a quote on a V Turn S26. Box way machine. They do not have any in stock and will only be in mid next month. I will see what the quote looks like when I hopefully get it tomorrow.

I am still waiting on the DN solutions rep to find a shop where I can view one of their machines running.

 

[Ox]

Had a look at the Good way today. Decent small machine, ran it a bit. Fanuc Oi TF. Nothing fancy but nothing that looked bad to me either. Linear guides. Also had a quick look at a PUMA 10S (I think) that is being rebuilt. Looks like a solid machine but is a bit old.

I spotted the Victor agency in the same road as the good way so decided to pop in. Going to get a quote on a V Turn S26. Box way machine. They do not have any in stock and will only be in mid next month. I will see what the quote looks like when I hopefully get it tomorrow.

I am still waiting on the DN solutions rep to find a shop where I can view one of their machines running.

Wow, that line above sounds interesting.

Is there a lot of MFG there?
And it is all pretty much in one area I take it - to have all the reps right there handy?

I ass_u_me that there is at least some amount of manufacturing in Rommel's sandbox up north? Likely to support ship building at least? Or is that just all demo there? Maybe too far removed to have a clue?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Garwood]

Also had a quick look at a PUMA 10S (I think) that is being rebuilt. Looks like a solid machine but is a bit old.

Puma 10S is a dinosaur! I have a 1995 10HC which is the newer bigger better faster version of that.

What were they doing to "rebuild" a 40 year old 2 axis lathe? This was a dealer doing this work?

 

[NAST555]

Wow, that line above sounds interesting.

Is there a lot of MFG there?
And it is all pretty much in one area I take it - to have all the reps right there handy?

I ass_u_me that there is at least some amount of manufacturing in Rommel's sandbox up north? Likely to support ship building at least? Or is that just all demo there? Maybe too far removed to have a clue?


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Well the Good way, and incidentally the Victor, agency is in Spartan, Kempton Park. I am in Alrode, Alberton. The other main areas for dealers would be Germiston and a bit closer to Johannesburg side and a bit Pretoria side.

I guess Gauteng, where I am, would be the hub for manufacturing but the coast, like Durban and the Cape, also have their fair share. In land Free state would be more farming but there are farms all over the country for different crops. Mining is still pretty big in certain areas.

Well that far north I honestly don't have a clue...

 

[NAST555]

Puma 10S is a dinosaur! I have a 1995 10HC which is the newer bigger better faster version of that.

What were they doing to "rebuild" a 40 year old 2 axis lathe? This was a dealer doing this work?

Unless I looked incorrectly. But it is a 1997 model with a Fanuc OTC control.

 

[SageGlad]

My best experience so far was with the DMG MORI.
I have three DMG machines, and two of them has Mitsubishi controllers. I did struggle a lot at the very beginning when switched from Fanuc for the first time, but I love this controls now.
The support from DMG is just great, they have been with my on the phone (phone support) for a few hours sometimes and all the issues I have had was absolutely figured out.
I know they support 30 years old machines with no problem and won’t deny your request.
So I’m buying more DMG later when need to expand, definitely.
Doosan is cool too, I have one, and it’s a different level in my personal opinion.

 

[Garwood]

In the past year I've seen a 38 year old 2 axis Mori sell for over $10k and a 25 year old SL25 sell for $25k. Private party cash dollars.

That says something about Mori.