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DSM / DV-59 thread rolling?

pan60

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Arkansas USA
to in the know let me ask?

i am making a small ring in stainless it will roughly be 2 1/2" in diameter and about .140 tall.
there will be a .040 lip that meed to be threaded at 32 TPI. so .100 left smooth and the last .040 threaded.
there will be other operation and the dimintions are rough but close.
how would be the best way to thread this small area?
i could simply move the part to another machinge and do them one at a time witch i was hoping not to do or i was wondering about maybe a BS thread rolling fixture?
i was thinking about having the rings on an expanding mandrel i could place a center in the turret?

could enough force be applied?
very much open to the ideas
thanks guys and gals.
pan
 

FredC

Titanium
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Location
Dewees Texas
A couple of questions, the answers may help.
How are you going to hold the ring? ID, or OD collet, a special mandrel?
What kind of stainless?
This B&S fixture is pressed in from the side?
Chamfers on both sides of the thread?

That big of a thread diameter would scare me except the thread length is so short and the thread is extra fine it may be possible. Never done this at all but answering the questions may help someone with experience to give you a good answer.
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
The Hardinge HCT chucker with chase threading is perfect for cutting large fine threads, like the optical industry often needs. I think the machine was mostly intended for that class of work. It cuts threads very rapidly, so installing and removing parts from an expanding 5C collet (a few seconds) will take more time than cutting the thread. Those lathes are fairly common and fairly cheap. Of course, they can do other lathe work besides threading.

Sorry, I only faintly recall a picture of a lever cross slide mounted thread roller, so I cannot help with that part of the question.

Larry
 

pan60

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Arkansas USA
i am thinking inside mandrel and its 304 S.S. and not much for chamfers.
yea a nice chucker with threading atachment would be nice but i dont have one and i am not needing to make many of these.
i will probably just moce to another machine and single point thread them?
i would love to come up with a better option but i am not seeing one and i am not sure about thread rolling? i have never done it.
a buddy that use to work on theose old B&S screw machines sudgetsted it but even hes not sure about it?
to bad these old turret lathes were not made to use the threading attachment like the chucker used.
i did look at a chucker i was thinking about buying but it does not have the threading fixture and finding one might be a issue?
thanks guys i will figure out something.
and if anyone has any ideas please share. :)
 
to bad these old turret lathes were not made to use the threading attachment like the chucker used

Actually, 2 of my ESM's have it. And will cut longer threads than the Chuckers.
I use one anytime there are multiple short thread parts (ID or OD) that will fit in collets or on a mandrel.
But no, you are not going to likely find one just laying around, or even complete, on Ebay, and the lathe requires a different bed casting with a back T-slot.

Adjsuter screws, modified square thread.

chasethred2.jpg


chasethred3.jpg


Without a built in threading rig, the "old guys" used to thread parts like you mention with chasers. Depends on how much of a learning curve you would enjoy :) And on the tolerance of the parts....
One of my ESM's came with a small handful of chasers but i've never tried to use them for other than cleaning up some old parts that were previously threaded.

smt
 

pan60

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Arkansas USA
not familure with the ESM's?
mine is a old DV-59 set up to be a DSM-59.
i wunder about makeing some sort of attachment?
probably to much work for no more parts needing to be made.
 
Hardinge made these right through the end of the steel cabinet/closed spindle/vee-belt drive "splitbeds" practically like the dovetail set up. Including a really rare splitbed model that was designed primarily for fast chase threading. I've never been sure if they ever carried anything in that line over to the dovetail beds.
Could have been done, but the bed castings are completely different.

If you are going to carry the rings on an expanding arbor, they can be run in any lathe with threading, as you mention. Probably quickest method.

smt
 

pan60

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Arkansas USA
i took a look today and there is a machined surface and a slote on the back of my mill, i thought there was but i thought it was for a tapper atachemnet? i dot know much about hardinge.
but i am learning. :)
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Hardinge made these right through the end of the steel cabinet/closed spindle/vee-belt drive "splitbeds" practically like the dovetail set up. Including a really rare splitbed model that was designed primarily for fast chase threading. I've never been sure if they ever carried anything in that line over to the dovetail beds.
Could have been done, but the bed castings are completely different.

If you are going to carry the rings on an expanding arbor, they can be run in any lathe with threading, as you mention. Probably quickest method.

smt

In 1946, the ESM and TR underneath drive split bed lathes were replaced by the dovetail bed lathes that became the DSM-59 and DV-59. The first few years of the dovetail beds were machined on the back of the bed casting for a new design chasing attachment. After a while, Hardinge stopped machining the back of the bed, but did not change the casting to eliminate the chasing attachment mounting features. The complete redesign in 1960 eliminated any remnants of thread chasing on the DSM-59 and DV-59.

The extreme rarity of the 1946 lathes that still have the chasing parts is a clue why Hardinge removed the feature after a short time. I have seen a number of the 1946 model lathes, but only one, made in 1948, that actually had the chasing attachment still mounted. It was on eBay in 2005. Pictures below. I had a few of the leadscrew masters for the 1946 that came from the Chicago Hardinge dealer and sold them on eBay long ago.

My 1940's ESM-59 still has its original chasing attachment which uses the same "hobs" or leadscrew masters as the pre-1930 Cataract lathes. I also have a pre-1930 Cataract chasing attachment with cutter slides for both 7" and 9" swing headstocks.

Larry

DV59 leadscrews 3.JPG DV59 leadscrews 2.JPG DV59 #1143 1.jpg DV59 #1143 5.jpg DV59 #1143 7.jpg
 

pan60

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Arkansas USA
so guys, gals?
is this machine set up for the trhead chasing attachment?
also is there a way to date these machines?
 

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L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
so guys, gals?
is this machine set up for the trhead chasing attachment?
also is there a way to date these machines?

The picture is not good enough to tell. Even if all the bed machining was done, there are no available chasing attachments to fit it. Look at the pictures I posted and see how complex it is.

If you can find the serial number, here is a table of years built vs. January serial number.

Larry

1946 DV DSM (2).jpg
 

pan60

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Arkansas USA
yea i did not figure i would find one but was just curious.
i'll get a better pic maybe tomorrow or mon.
is the number stamped on the lathe?
 








 
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