Elgin / Hardinge lathe help

[IrbyJones]

I like the tool organization in that chip pan ;~)

Organization is my specialty!

 

[IrbyJones]

<snip>

(BTW, nice paint on the BB-59 headstock there!)

Thanks, Jim! That's my version of Patrick Black's Rock Moss Green.

But the best part is that headstock can run off the DC motor in the background and can be slid anywhere along the lathe bed. The blue Danfoss cycletrol 150 up beside the DRO controls the motor.

That's at about 3500 RPM!

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Tailstock ram update....

I removed the ram to start working on the Tailstock this weekend (Hopefully) and said that looks like a MT1 using this information below and my measurements this must be a MT1 ...

My measurements in respect to the lettering in the photo for MT1...

A: 46.35
K: 1.86??

 

[IrbyJones]

I guess you mean 0.4635? That's close to what a Hardinge taper would measure. My tailstock, which has a "Hardinge tailstock taper" and is probably the same vintage as yours, measures 0.465. If it were an MT1, the measurement would be closer to 0.475, although it's really hard to determine the tailstock taper by the diameter of the opening alone. You really need an MT1 taper something to try in it. And if that fails, then it's the Hardinge taper most likely. You already have the mating taper on that centering piece, so you can measure that. Measure the diameter at the large end where it goes into the tailstock and then the small end and the distance between them and compare those to the MT1. If the small diameter is smaller than the diameter listed for the MT1, then you have the Hardinge taper. Here's a photo of the two tapers, the "Hardinge tailstock taper" on the top has a smaller end.

If you stick the MT1 taper into the "Hardinge taper" tailstock, the larger "small" end bottoms out before it reaches the full length and the taper sticks out as like this.

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Thanks!!! … I can’t measure the inside bottom diameter for my tools are packed away somewhere lol … good thing I ordered a mt1 reamer

 

[Dave.Phillips]

.4635 yes

 

[IrbyJones]

At the very end of the "Hardinge taper" I measure .330", just before it goes to that smaller diameter. See if you measure that, or close to it, at the small end of the taper on the center you have. Nowhere on the MT1 is it that small. That could tell you if your tailstock has the "Hardinge taper".

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Yeah it’s clearly not mt1… I will ream it when the lathe is done assuming I have a 4c or find a 4c the same size as the ram or I will have to do it on my atlas lathe

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Actually now that I’m thinking of it… that ram probably won’t pass through the Harding head stock even if I did have the collet size. Guess I will use my Atlas 10d when the time comes for this.

 

[L Vanice]

I had to make a new Hardinge tailstock ram decades ago. The last steps were to assemble the new ram, which had not yet been finish bored and taper reamed, in the tailstock and rough bore it with a boring tool in a headstock collet. Then I used the roughing and finishing Morse taper reamers. The tailstock screw was used to feed the cutting tools into the ram. This method assured the tailstock taper lined up with the headstock.

There was a lot of work that went before those last two steps, but that work was specific for correcting other wear issues on that lathe.

Larry

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi Larry...

" The tailstock screw was used to feed the cutting tools into the ram. This method assured the tailstock taper lined up with the headstock. " so you're basically saying drill and ream with the tooling in the headstock and ram in the Tailstock? ... if correct I was thinking this also

 

[MrStretch]

Seems to me that it would be alot easier to make new hardinge tapers for the tailstock than replacing the ram. Years ago when I was tooling up my new to me Stark #4 I mounted an existing dead center between centers and set the crosslide to the existing taper to cut new ones. Worked just fine. Used the carrier plate/chuck in the headstock to finish the working end of the tapers. Good enough for clockwork!

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Thanks MrStrech!!! Yes that's is another option however I'd prefer the simplicity down the line with just inserting tooling with a MT1.

 

[IrbyJones]

I had started making some tooling to bore my 9" swing Cataract tailstock out to MT1 but stopped when I thought I'd just make a bunch of tooling with the "Hardinge tailstock taper" on them. But after getting and using a later model tailstock that has the MT1 taper and accumulating MT1 tooling, I've decided to go ahead and bore and ream the old tailstock to MT1. Now I just need to go find the stuff I had started years ago! What I was going to do was attach a digital readout caliper to the tailstock and ram so it read the ram extension. Then mount a boring head in the headstock like Larry mentioned, and use it to bore steps into the ram bore to approximate the MT1 shape. I was going to have an insert in the clamp at the front of the ram that held one end of the caliper that had a .475" diameter bore to calibrate the boring head cutter for the first cut - at the largest MT1 diameter. Then after setting the boring head, remove that insert, and set the cutter to the front of the ram, zero the caplier, and take a very short cut to just start. Just enough to see it cut. Then back the ram off the cutter, reduce the cutter radius something like 5 thousandths, and using the ram handwheel cut a depth - new length - for the step I calculated for the new MT1 diameter. Keep doing this until I reached the bottom of the original taper depth cut into the ram or the end of the cutter length. Now I'd have a pretty fine series of steps that are concentric with the centerline of the headstock and are nearly the shape of the MT1 taper. Mounting an MT1 reamer in the headstock and taking light cuts by hand should have cleaned up the taper just fine.

A lot of work but it takes a lot to get the taper on the headstock centerline and all. And using the "single point tool" of the boring head should make the bores stay on the headstock centerline.

If I find the parts and finish the fixtures real soon, maybe I can loan them to you, Dave, to try on your tailstock...

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Irby ...

Why can't we just open the taper up slightly with a drill bit in the lathe collet and then run the MT1 course bit under power simply pecking, finishing up with the fine mt1 reamer under hand pressure?

What did I miss?

 

[IrbyJones]

The drill bit will wander off center if the bore of the ram is off center with the headstock. Sometimes the headstock and tailstock are not on the same centerlines. They are make to be on the same at the factory for a matched set, but over the years and with mis-matched pieces of hardware, they can be off. You can put a center in each and see if they line up.

At least that's my opinion...

Irby

 

[IrbyJones]

I've never trusted drills to drill straight. If I want a straight hole to the centerline of the spindle or headstock, I use an endmill. Drill undersize with a drill, clean up with an endmill.

If I want it true to less than a thousandth, I bore it...using one of these.



Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

You're right.. guess I need to find a boring head that will fit a 4C collet.

 

[IrbyJones]

Get one with a straight 1/2" or 5/8" shank. Maybe up to 3/4" I think 4C collets take. I have several, I just grabbed the one with the B&S #9 shank.

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Ok well I certainly have a plan for the tailstock now after the lathe is completed

Now I'd like you're opinions with the Headstock....

Normally I'd tare it apart and clean, paint and assemble and probably new bearings.... now with this one I'm not sure I'm going to do it that way and simply clean and paint assembled. My concern is the bearings...

Thoughts??