Elgin / Hardinge lathe help

[jim rozen]

My advice: never run morse taper reamers under power.

I used a boring head, in the headstock, to get a center location in the ram, held stationary in the tailstock. The ram was then transferred to another, larger lathe, held in a 4-jaw chuck. The start bore was centered in the chuck, and the OD was adjusted to be sure it was parallel to the tool travel. Then the morse socket was rough bored using the compound adjusted as close as I could get it. Finish was with a MT reamer pushed by a center in the tailstock, turned by hand with a wrench, the headstock spindle locked.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Oil and wick system?

Ok thought I ask this in this forum outside of the actual resurrection forum lol...

I have been thinking, looking and researching this oil suction ( I think it is ) system on the Hardinge headstock.

1) apparently the oil wicks were worsted yarn at some OD is this correct?

2) the oilers I have... I understand they we're probably added from someone at sometime however if this is a suction system the drip oilers aren't doing anything like dripping they would only make a good oil holding system. The original oil Tubes one would fill up completely and oil would be suction out of the tube into the oil wick when the spindle is rotating.

3) The oil type I'm thinking was actually important because of the oil thickness or flow. I'm thinking it would have to be a thin oil to be sucking properly if this is a suction system. I think I saw something like a #6 oil stuff ( technical term stuff ).

4) Looking at the evolution of this Headstock it appears to me that the oilers we're quickly moved from side mounting systems to top mounting systems ( oil filler tube on top of the headstock ) during this change was it still using oil wicks or did it change to oil dripping system not utilizing oil wicks?

I'm trying to understand this system so I can install the correct oil wicks.

 

[jim rozen]

The large oilers on your headstock are not original. A previous owner retrofited those. Originally oil was held, saturated in the wicks that lived in the bores under the spindle bearings, and were re-filled via the oil ports with the knuled, rotating covers. Machines of this vintage invariably have fairly worn spindle bearings and efforts at keeping them running typically involve various lube dodges. It's not unusul to see spindles of this vintage with zerk fittings, and pumped full of bearing grease. Fact of the matter is hardinge continuoulsy changed the lube scheme over the years.

I could send you a quantity of round felt to fill the lube reservoirs with, if the bearings have enough left in them that they can be properly adjusted you can try to revert to the original scheme, it might work.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi Jim

I had to read what you said a few times lol...

1) Yes like I said the oilers we're added however they may have a purpose let me understand. How does one oil that wick? The original oil cups mounted on the side like mine would be hard pressed to work unless one had the entire tube constantly filled. Meaning you would need the weight of the oil to force it into the reservoir we're the wick lives. Now if this is correct you would be over filling the system constantly if it's not a suction system. The placement of the oil cups on top would elevate this we're the oil would go directly into the wick reservoir and thus maybe why that change happened from Hardinge.

Sorry!!! I don't think my questions in the previous posting was answered maybe I didn't explain properly.

2) The bearing look good however one doesn't know until assembly I guess.

Thanks Jim!

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi Jim

I had to read what you said a few times lol...

1) Yes like I said the oilers we're added however they may have a purpose let me understand. How does one oil that wick? The original oil cups mounted on the side like mine would be hard pressed to work unless one had the entire tube constantly filled. Meaning you would need the weight of the oil to force it into the reservoir we're the wick lives. Now if this is correct you would be over filling the system constantly if it's not a suction system. The placement of the oil cups on top would elevate this we're the oil would go directly into the wick reservoir and thus maybe why that change happened from Hardinge.

Sorry!!! I don't think my questions in the previous posting was answered maybe I didn't explain properly.

2) The bearing look good however one doesn't know until assembly I guess.

Thanks Jim!

Ok outside of my other questions in the above posting.....

What is this??

 

[Dave.Phillips]

More...
It doesn't appear to be a grinder attachment... appears to be something for a clock or watchmaker.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

More...
It doesn't appear to be a grinder attachment... appears to be something for a clock or watchmaker.

Maybe a clockmaker or watchmaker engraving attachment missing the bits on the ram?

 

[IrbyJones]

Maybe a clockmaker or watchmaker engraving attachment missing the bits on the ram?

It looks like a watch maker's pivot polisher. I have a catalog with it in there. Here are scans from the catalog. It seems they put an image of it on the catalog back cover










Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Yes it sure is… makes sense now that I see all the parts for the one I noticed was missing all the attachments.

I hate polishing pivot's doing the hand method…

What a nice catalog Irby!!

Thanks!!!!

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Does anyone have data on the grinding attachment no 134! Hardinge.... I see one on ebay that I'm interested in however I'm not sure how it attaches to the compound or bed

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Looks like it slides into the compound however I don't see a way to tighten it in

 

[IrbyJones]

Looks like it slides into the compound however I don't see a way to tighten it in

It slides into the compound like you say, and tightens by turning the two screws on the side to pull the bottom plate up. Just like the headstock and tailstock work.

I have one like it. I’ll find it and take a couple photos showing the scale of them plus how it tightens.

You can find a description on Tony’s site under Cataract Accessories.

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Thanks!!! … Tony’s site?

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Never mind I found what you were meaning Tony’s site lol lol

 

[IrbyJones]

Never mind I found what you were meaning Tony’s site lol lol

http://www.lathes.co.uk/cataract/page2.html

I think we're allowed to list his site since it's not a competitor of this site, and Tony actually posts here once in a while.

Irby

 

[IrbyJones]

OK, here's the grinder I have. Looks like the one Hardinge called Adjustable Height Grinder, although I can't find any markings on it. It has the usual Hardinge way of clamping to the T-slot. A "bolt" through the side with an eccentric area that pulls a T-shaped piece up when rotated. The T-shaped piece locks the part into the T-slot of the compound or lathe bed.

On the grinder you're looking at on "that other site", you'll notice two round areas on the bottom of the rectangular piece that goes into the compound T-slot. Those would be the bottom of the pieces that extend up to the eccentric "bolts" that pull the rectangular piece up to lock it in the compound T-slot. The two slotted screws in the side are the eccentric "bolts" that go through holes in those two pieces and pull them up when you turn those screws to lock the unit in the T-slot. Hope that makes sense. That's a way cool grinder!

My grinder, showing the scale of it.


Arrow points to the "bolt" to turn to lock unit into compound T-slot.



Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Thanks!!! I think he is asking almost 500 ... a bit steep

 

[IrbyJones]

Thanks!!! I think he is asking almost 500 ... a bit steep

Yep, that's a LOT! I think I paid $75 for mine. The folks didn't know what it was, and since it's not Hardinge (apparently), it's not stamped with any name. The only name is on the Jacobs chuck. It was listed as something like Jacobs chuck spindle. I lucked out!

Now what you also need is a set of counter shaft brackets like I also lucked into so you could run the grinder like Hardinge originally intended.


The brackets are shown as the 3-speed "Universal" countershaft by Hardinge (below). Some parts are missing in the set I got. They are used as shown in the figure below this one with a belt running from the big pulley down to the grinder - where the red arrow indicates.




I don't think you need all the foot petal operated shifter stuff Hardinge shows, though. Just a simple hand operated overhead lever seems fine to me. And it will work easily with this set I have.

Irby

 

[L Vanice]

OK, here's the grinder I have. Looks like the one Hardinge called Adjustable Height Grinder, although I can't find any markings on it. It has the usual Hardinge way of clamping to the T-slot. A "bolt" through the side with an eccentric area that pulls a T-shaped piece up when rotated. The T-shaped piece locks the part into the T-slot of the compound or lathe bed.

On the grinder you're looking at on "that other site", you'll notice two round areas on the bottom of the rectangular piece that goes into the compound T-slot. Those would be the bottom of the pieces that extend up to the eccentric "bolts" that pull the rectangular piece up to lock it in the compound T-slot. The two slotted screws in the side are the eccentric "bolts" that go through holes in those two pieces and pull them up when you turn those screws to lock the unit in the T-slot. Hope that makes sense. That's a way cool grinder!

My grinder, showing the scale of it.
Arrow points to the "bolt" to turn to lock unit into compound T-slot.

Irby

I think that is a Hardinge grinding attachment from the 1940-1960 period. It was probably meant to be powered with a dedicated drive suited to underneath drive lathes with no upper countershaft as was used to run grinders and milling attachments on the old flat belt drive Cataracts. Hardinge sold an iron base with an electric motor and pulley. A steel bar rose from the base and there were jockey pulleys attached to a cross bar near the top. The whole thing could sit on rubber feet behind the lathe bed on a wood bench or steel cabinet.

Here is a Cataract grinding attachment, ser. no. 20, probably the first batch made circa 1907 or so. And pictures of a very similar and much newer Schaublin 102 grinding attachment.

Larry

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi Larry!!

Irby …

1) Your attachment looks a bit different then the Hardinge photos I have seen. Interesting that yours fowls the paint scheme of what I learned recently from Hardinge during WWII were they painted over the traditional gray with olive drab and machinery was basically sold for industrial uses during WWII. Be interesting if a Hardinge stamp is under all that old paint lol.

2) Larry mentioned the under drive system for the attachment that I think was attached to the carriage lead screw or something. This is also not the first time I have heard that during my newbie Hardinge research.

3) Your grinder differs basically in the spindle and bottom mount. Your spindle has what appears to be threaded adapter or something allowing you to mount that chuck. I don’t know however the Hardinge ones I have seen only have the mount for the grinding disc. I wonder if yours has optional spindles similar to the Hardinge speed tailstock? Interesting.

4) Your spindle doesn’t have the finger rest at the end of the spindle allowing comfort when pushing the knob with your thumb like the Hardinge.

I love all the old photos!! Great learning for me!!