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ELSR addition to 59 WIAD: question for the EE’s

rimcanyon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Location
Salinas, CA USA
I am adding ELSR to the 59 WIAD 10EE. I’ve done this before, but this one is different. Monarch had lots of changes to the basic wiring over the years, especially with ELSR.

What I am looking for is information. A circuit diagram or someone with knowledge. The 59 WIAD does not have a 220/110 transformer. It doesn’t even have the small transformer in the contactor compartment that is used to power the on/off light and controls on many 10EE’s.

All the ELSR circuit diagrams I have seen use a 120V control circuit. I assume the control circuit on the 59 is 220V. So if I wire the ELSR as per the Monarch circuit diagrams I have, I will be changing a lot of connections and adding a 220/110 transformer (I will add one anyway for the machine light and DRO).

So here is the question: do you know of any ELSR equipped WIAD machines which do not use 110V in the control circuit? It is not the kind of question that Scott at Monarch will typically answer. I would love to get the serial number of such a machine and request some electrical prints from Monarch.
 

thermite

Diamond
The 59 WIAD does not have a 220/110 transformer. It doesn’t even have the small transformer in the contactor compartment that is used to power the on/off light and controls on many 10EE’s.

Might still not BE 220 VAC?

A(ny) "hollow state" goods - the WiaD - had OTHER transformers. Surely it was strappable for 440 as well as 220?

Did one of those - or a tap - perchance do double-duty at some lesser Voltage than 220 ?? Did it have a Field Economizer? Or was the Field DC always-ON?


I cannot grok 440 for human-interface control circuits as being a happy place.
 

rke[pler

Diamond
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Location
Peralta, NM USA
I recall that my '56 doesn't have a control transformer, either, and that the plug for the lamp is derived from L1 referenced to neutral but that latter might be what I did so that it wouldn't reference to ground.
 

rimcanyon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Location
Salinas, CA USA
Thermite, all your questions are answered, here in this forum. Alternatively, if you look at even one Monarch circuit diagram for an ELSR equipped lathe, you will have specifics, no need to speculate or generalize based on your vast knowledge of trivia. In this thread, specifics about how Monarch wired ELSR equipped lathes is all that I am looking for.

Might still not BE 220 VAC?

A(ny) "hollow state" goods - the WiaD - had OTHER transformers. Surely it was strappable for 440 as well as 220?

Did one of those - or a tap - perchance do double-duty at some lesser Voltage than 220 ?? Did it have a Field Economizer? Or was the Field DC always-ON?


I cannot grok 440 for human-interface control circuits as being a happy place.
 

rimcanyon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Location
Salinas, CA USA
As I mentioned in the first post, I have collected several circuit diagrams for 10EEs, mainly in support of various machines I owned or worked on. And every one that has ELSR also had a control transformer for the AC control circuit. Some of the diagrams call out the AC control circuit as 110V and label the contacts as T1-3 and T2-3; others just show the control circuit as the secondary of a transformer and label the contacts as B-7 and 5. So in all the examples I am aware of, the "safety" micro switch in the ELSR housing carries 110VAC. In all cases, the fwd/rev micro switches carry 110VDC, since they are part of the DC control circuit.

I wonder if the reason for this is that the micro switches are not rated for 220VAC?
 

thermite

Diamond
As I mentioned in the first post, I have collected several circuit diagrams for 10EEs, mainly in support of various machines I owned or worked on. And every one that has ELSR also had a control transformer for the AC control circuit. Some of the diagrams call out the AC control circuit as 110V and label the contacts as T1-3 and T2-3; others just show the control circuit as the secondary of a transformer and label the contacts as B-7 and 5. So in all the examples I am aware of, the "safety" micro switch in the ELSR housing carries 110VAC. In all cases, the fwd/rev micro switches carry 110VDC, since they are part of the DC control circuit.

I wonder if the reason for this is that the micro switches are not rated for 220VAC?

220 VAC isn't a problem for the contacts. Having to interrupt DC ...or higher AC Amperage could be.

"All else being equal" 24 VAC runs higher Amperage to operate a relay or contactor actuating coil to the same physical force as 120 VAC needs.

Even IF.. you - and the 10EE - are to be now and then deluged with a water-emulsion coolant... I don't see 120 VAC as all that hazardous. The goods are protected. IF they were soaked? There is an immediately "local" short to ground before it can reach-out.

Same as the "direct acting" controls on my 240 VAC kitchen range. Which DOES get the odd spill or boil-over, after all.

That said, I would use 24 V if I were doing this. Because I have a ton OF it "paid for".

Not an "OSHA" thing. Not exactly..

If nothing else?

It simplifies all Hell out of my .."Hell Box" ...as to keeping a massive stash of dirt-common R&D and repair PARTS handy .. bought at attractive prices!

:)

Annnd.. under 50 VAC was "Class Two field wiring" per code when I was just a tyke. Doorbells, thermostats, etc. as were generally considered low/no lethality circuits.

loooong before OSHA even existed, that had become habit for controls.

Telegraphy 130 VDC (plus open-wire inductance!) as retained for Donkey's years (burgler alarm circuits!) or undersea 8,000 Volt submarine cables .. HAD kilt a few folks.

Terrestrial TELCO neg-48 DC as well. (55 VDC ++ whilst in float..).

But in OUR case, it wasn't the electrocution innit. The surprise of a sting could knock some poor "goosey" naif of a wireman off a pole or eleven-foot up a ladder in front of the old "distribution frame" and break a leg. Or even his neck.

:(
 








 
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