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Employee or Robot?

You're not an authentic corporation in the sense of investors, fiduciary, driven by profit-by-quarter. You're a constituency that was created to protect authentic corporations: they give you some of the crumbs of incorporation, so you protect them feasting.

I don't think in terms of friends/enemies. I just think in terms of what is/isn't.
ok, first I am not "american", now I am not "authentic".
and I am a "constituency"- news to me.
I didnt even notice when I was "created".
Do you have a business?
Have you ever had employees, signed paychecks, and paid employer taxes?
Do you make things, and sell them, wholesale and retail?
Do you own a for profit metal working business?
Me, I have been doing all that stuff for 40 plus years, and all your defintions sound nothing like my life has been for those 4 or 5 decades.
I think you stepped in a big pile of steaming ideology and politics, and you might wanna find a hose and wash it off.
 
It wasn't a problem to go off topic when you two were spouting nonsense about Mussolini or Neo Marxism (what the hell even is that). Now that you're experiencing the minimum questioning by other users, it's "let's get back on topic".
Check post #53. I immediately suggested the topic be avoided, and didn't return to it until I was informed that site etiquette tolerates such hijacking. Now that the error resulting from the typical trolling has been exposed, I want to move on. Nothing unusual about that.
 
You didn't redefine what it means to you. The definition of a word (when used to communicate with others) is made through consensus. An implied consensus of the definition had been established between me and him. You entered the conversation, apparently ignoring the agreed upon definition, and arguing with me. Had you simply considered what I was saying-- recognize the manner in which the word was being used, there would have been no disagreement, or perhaps a request for clarity.

For what it's worth, this tedious nonsense is why I didn't want to hijack this thread. I knew it was just tedious.

UNFKNBLVBL
 
A++ on the old retired guy as a part timer and set their own hours.
By far the best I ever had was a retired GM plant manger and engineering manger. Asked to be a VP but he said no, my time here is done.
He made me want to work harder and inspired the rest of the crew as well.
$15 a hour for a guy that had a $150K+ job before. Golden and he taught me a few things.

Other end is also retired guys who are bored at home and maybe have been floor sweepers. They also are so great.
They want something to do that makes you feel alive, of use and not sitting on the porch.

I am 65+. Nobody wants to hire me. Retire, sit on a beach? I would go crazy or more crazy than I am.

Dad once out the business came to me and wanted to do some sales end for my shop. He even had cards printed.
I turned him down due to our conflicts at the time. That was a big mistake.

Old people are just grey haired and you may find that they are still 25 in hitting the production rates and working.
Not to say that I do not like 16-20 year old youngsters also. I also love newbies and teaching them.
 
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ok, first I am not "american", now I am not "authentic".
and I am a "constituency"- news to me.
I didnt even notice when I was "created".
Based on your statements about business in America, you are conducting business in America; yes?

Incorporation, a form of subsidy, was very rare when America was founded. Back then, corporations were for enslaving nations like India. But they could also be beneficial-- protecting investors building a public good like a bridge.

By whatever means, incorporation became quite normal in America. I want to say that was the late 19th century, early 20th. And they've steadily grown since then.

To protect that subsidy, incorporation, in a system with universal suffrage, the investors needed political clout via a voting bloc, constituency. Just as Americans will use their vote to protect their 401k, which shields the big investors from consequences, the government made forming a corporation very easy for average voters. That makes the small time corporation part of a pro-corporation constituency.

Are these people responsible for US based corporations invading foreign lands? Not directly, but they're certainly an enabling constituency.

As for the rest, I've proven my point and have no interest in continuing this.
 
The dogs bark, the caravan moves on.
i have been posting here, for better or worse, since 2004.
what do you wanna bet that in a month, badda badda boom will have vanished, off to find a new crop of ignorant sheep like me to “ educate”, somewhere else?
 
what do you wanna bet that in a month, badda badda boom will have vanished, off to find a new crop of ignorant sheep like me to “ educate”, somewhere else?
Post #61 is where you began trying to educate me, professor. Get it straight. I didn't start with you.
 
I'm sure the Op got a whole lot of helpful info on the last two pages.........Geez :rolleyes5: :willy_nilly: :wrong:

Anyway, he doesn't need to extend himself with another machine, sure doesn't need a robot...at this point in time.
As he mentioned, he needs to "up" his jobs. This is NUMBER 1 on the list.
He needs to get real efficient.
Find part time cash help to assist in whatever
And seriously look into ac , that alone will reduce the stress level.
If the OP can hook it up, I can get him the equipment at true wholesale...
 
Looking through the OP's post history, we find Xometry mentioned as a source for work. Perhaps the best advice would be to (again) set the record straight about what Xometry, MFG, etc were supposed to be in the beginning: a source to back-fill cheap work into shops that had holes.

Uber and Lyft were supposed to be ride sharing apps: I'm going to drive 30 miles to pick something up. Does anyone else need a ride? I can pick someone up, have a chat with people of diverse cultures, share the ride, pay for some of my vehicle's operating expenses. They became a taxi service when people started actively wearing out their personal automobiles trying to be public transit. This is the trap the OP has found himself in. He can make a living if he just drives a few more hours a day. Maybe hire another driver and another car! Oooh, maybe a self-driving car!

That's what Xometry has done and it appears the OP got sucked in. He found out people will "pay for a ride to the airport" in his new DN Solutions machine but, he's just wearing it out at his own expense.

@Miller846 hear me: I have an early 30s friend who works for Xometry, who might end up reading these words some day. He wants to buy a Brother for his garage and do exactly what you are doing. He tried to talk me into bidding work. I won't even look at it. It's not possible to live on those scraps. You can back-fill a healthy business with it but, it's not designed to start or maintain a business. That's the reality you've run into with all these hours and low bidding jobs. Don't keep digging the hole deeper with more machinery. Again: densification and programming strategies, looonng before buying more spindles.

It's already been mentioned but, another vote here. Watch every single one of this guy's videos. Watch his videos on robots first:

He has the manufacturing tiger by the tail and he's not using a shop full of robots. Densification, fast changes and programming.

I have another friend who tries to get me to bid work for him. It comes in and I tell him to take it to the shop next door, let them bid and complete it, bring it in, wrap it 50% and it'll still be cheaper than whatever I'm going to quote. I'm absolutely floored by what some shops will bid work for.

One was a pair of stabilizer fins for a boat: ball contoured, about 18" long and 0.5" thick and it knife edged at the back. Tolerance was going to stack up at that back edge and cause issues achieving the final outline. Left and right parts. Material included, I think the shop next door bid $1,200. Like absolutely WTF? Assuming $100/hour, $200 in material & cutters and two hours of programming and setup, it was bidding eight-hours, to complete both parts. Four hours per part, ball contoured both sides.

I would have wasted my time, bidding at least double and (obviously) not got the job. They are paying crap wages to low-skill workers who can barely do the job. They probably netted around $50/hour when they were done. No idea how they even keep the lights on, much less eat and live indoors.
 
1. Mini-split A/C. Cheap ones are something like $600, you could replace it every summer and it would be worth it.

2. Everything gets delivered and picked up. I'm guessing the OP is in a residential area and it's hard getting a 48' trailer in there and that why he's doing steel runs?

3. Nobody has mentioned 1099 contractors? Still have the in-home problems to deal with for the OP, but find someone who needs short term work and have them help you. I'm with @Ries, shop help is helpful; it's even in the word (unless they aren't, which is why you told them upfront it may be a short term thing. "Thanks, won't need you next week").

4. @Buh Dunk Uh Dunk- ??? Check out members OrangeVise and MariTool, I'd call the both American successes. There are others, they in particular are very open.
 
1. Mini-split A/C. Cheap ones are something like $600, you could replace it every summer and it would be worth it.
The cheap ones are $200 here, someone should do a group buy and all you guys can stick one in the garage for cheap.

2. I'm guessing the OP is in a residential area and it's hard getting a 48' trailer in there and that why he's doing steel runs?
He's not picking up 20' lengths in his suv either, so that doesn't apply. Get a guy with a pickup truck to do that and keep the spindle turning.

4. @Buh Dunk Uh Dunk- ??? Check out members OrangeVise and MariTool, I'd call the both American successes. There are others, they in particular are very open.
He's talking Big Picture, not the exception. As I pointed out elsewhere, American Apparel broke the rules about "cheap labor" too, but that doesn't mean the garment industry is going to "reshore" just because one guy managed to make it work.

Kinda sorry for the redirect but it's valid : so many people here saying "don't do cheapass work !" which I think is accurate, very difficult for a single guy to compete with established shops.

But that's also true in the big picture : why the hell would anyone "reshore" flatware production, or shoes, or table lamps, or electrical fittings, or plumbing, or any of the other stuff you buy at Home Depot ? If a guy can't even make it in his garage with no overhead at all, how do they expect places with a lot of overhead and also stock owners to do it ? "Luigi ! We're losing a buck on each head of lettuce, we shoulda bought a bigger truck !"

?? There's a contradiction there that people are not seeing.
 

@Miller846 hear me: I have an early 30s friend who works for Xometry, who might end up reading these words some day. He wants to buy a Brother for his garage and do exactly what you are doing. He tried to talk me into bidding work. I won't even look at it. It's not possible to live on those scraps. You can back-fill a healthy business with it but, it's not designed to start or maintain a business. That's the reality you've run into with all these hours and low bidding jobs. Don't keep digging the hole deeper with more machinery. Again: densification and programming strategies, looonng before buying more spindles.

While I generally agree with your sentiment 100%. There are far too many variables for it to be a hard fast rule. Overhead expenses rule all. It is NOT how much money you can make, rather how much you can keep! I am finally in a position where I can now bid work so low, and make GOOD money, your head would spin. I'm sure there is a ton of work on xometry I could profit from. But I will not go there simply because I can not stand their business model. All the videos they posted in the very beginning made me cringe. I felt insulted like they didn't think I/we couldn't see right through the message! Reminded me of the govt/politics. Yea, I'm out! I will NEVER race to the bottom. But, I have a killer edge over the next guy. If the work fits my shop? It is not hard for ME to make $300/hr running three machines. That is not a bad days wages. Because my overhead is pretty much utilities and consumables ONLY. I agree 100% xometry, and mfg, and the like, are not a good thing for the industry. But, a guy like me is a godsend for a start-up! Especially one considering xometry and the like to source his parts. Simply because the customer can have a personal relationship with his vendor. I can not even count how many times I have saved customers huge amounts of $$$ simply by showing them design changes that allow much simpler ways to manufacture what they need. Even sometimes sending them away from my shop for processes I do not offer. This kind of thing will eventually pay forward because it shows your honesty and integrity. Word of mouth is everything! And I would rather work with a competent startup hands down. And, I can provide a stable, reliable, and most of all, AFFORDABLE service to them. Giving them a chance for success. But, it is damn near impossible for a guy to start a "job-shop" in this position though. So he has to keep his head down and pay his dues. Just like the OP is complaining about. It is an uphill climb. And the only way to get over the hill is keep climbing. Unless he already has enough $$$$ that it makes no sense for him to pursue the endeavor. Unless he really loves it that much. Then as some have stated, it is a hobby-shop, not a real job-shop. But, judging from the OP, it is either not that, or he is just looking for attention. Personally, I did it because I HATED everything else more! Including stuffing another mans pockets. And, had faith my work ethics would somehow pull me through. Had no clue "how" though, LOL! I just kept grinding. Still grind when necessary. "If it was easy, everybody would do it"
 
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He's not picking up 20' lengths in his suv either, so that doesn't apply. Get a guy with a pickup truck to do that and keep the spindle turning.
You edited my post, and are arguing against my speculation as if it were my statement. Original post was (with deleted part in bold):

2. Everything gets delivered and picked up. I'm guessing the OP is in a residential area and it's hard getting a 48' trailer in there and that why he's doing steel runs?

Screenshot:
Screenshot_20230728-061727_Brave.jpg
 
The cheap ones are $200 here, someone should do a group buy and all you guys can stick one in the garage for cheap.
Plot Twist: I bought one as part of a group buy. It was set up by a guy named Bernard Marcus. He said after QC, shipping, import tariffs, delivery, and some profit for his time, it would be $600. Having gone through the process of importing goods myself, it seemed like a fair deal so I jumped on it.
 
You edited my post, and are arguing against my speculation as if it were my statement.
Just shortened it because I hate pawing through long sections of what's already been said. If it changed the meaning I'm sorry but all I meant was, he said he's picking steel up already so we can be pretty sure it's not 20' lengths, so anyone with a pickup could do it.

Easier to get a guy with a pair of gloves and a pickup than someone trained to run a vmc.

Or maybe not, in the US. Here it'd be nothing, two or three phone calls to get the cheapest price.

Plot Twist: I bought one as part of a group buy. It was set up by a guy named Bernard Marcus. He said after QC, shipping, import tariffs, delivery, and some profit for his time, it would be $600. Having gone through the process of importing goods myself, it seemed like a fair deal so I jumped on it.
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, he could have got upscale units. The $200 ones are bottom of the line - but I've bought two for offices so far and they have worked for over two years in each place. Maybe still running, don't know, I was too lazy to remove them when we left.

Actually, too scared to climb out the tenth story window to drag the compressor portion inside. Those guys are crazy. Cheesy-ass 1/2" polypropylene rope tied off to an office chair for a safety line, and they climb out on a bunch of rusted 1/4" ... I mean 6mm - bolts sort of driven into the concrete somehow. Nuts.

I did take the floor up in one place, surprised the assholes who were trying to screw us out of the deposit. Got the deposit back, too. Set the assistant on them :)
 
4. @Buh Dunk Uh Dunk- ??? Check out members OrangeVise and MariTool, I'd call the both American successes. There are others, they in particular are very open.

And don't forget Seekins Precision!

I'm sure other PM'ers remember Glenn Seekins posting questions about his new Haas Mini-Mill in his garage. Fast forward just a few years, and the guy was working hundreds of people, and trading-in 2-year old DMGMori horizontals for brand-new ones because the tool changes are one tenth of a second faster.

Sure, America is a big-corporate and bought-politician country, but we're so damn big and filled with natural resources and a population with a bit of money, there's always opportunity to pursue whatever business you set your mind to.

ToolCat
 
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