Engine hoist cheater bar—Square Head American L1 chuck removal

[Blackrainstorm]

I have this 1967 American “square head” 14x54 lathe sitting in my home shop that needs some fixing. It has a few broken external parts and what not, but the most daunting problem has been removing the rusted L1 chuck with rusted on spindle nut.

1. Buy spanner, put lathe in back gear, no luck
2. Use deadblow hammer on spanner
3. Dog chuck with a 15” Crescent wrench onto casting, use bigger hammer on spanner
4. Dog chuck, use engine hoist and hook on spanner
5. See above, plus heat
6. See above plus soak in Kroil penetrating oil, still no luck
7. See above plus second spanner on opposite side, hit with large hammer Success!

The nut broke free with enough force that it backed off three threads until it bottomed out on the headstock.



In my experience, very little gives the same feeling of euphoria and invincibility as conquering a seemingly impossible stuck fastener. Kinda sprung my spanner though.

Still organizing and reorganizing my shop. I will post something with more pictures in a week or so.

 

[CalG]

Looking at the extended arm on that engine lift, with a pallet jack between....

I think you might best be served to "step away from the machinery".

You might do some hurt!

 

[kustomizingkid]

Looking at the extended arm on that engine lift, with a pallet jack between....

I think you might best be served to "step away from the machinery".

You might do some hurt!

Except it worked... desperate measures are required in certain situations.

 

[thermite]

Except it worked... desperate measures are required in certain situations.

Less drama to ask among your acquaintance for the aid of an ambidextrous person (guilty).

Matched pair of deadblows hit the ring 180 degrees opposite, same instant as to impact, rotate, repeat until the elastic distortion, round to ellipse has freed the ring and an ordinary wrench takes it off. A goodly portion of rust is air - what ain't fails and occupies lesser volume under that stress.

Downside is one best be fully ambidextrous so the opposing blows DO match and not waste the effect nor bother the bearings.

Suppose it could be automated - perhaps with solenoids and air?

Galley slaves synchronized to the Hortator's drumbeat have gone skeerce.... minimum wage thing?

 

[alum100k]

So glad I see exactly what you said. I mean even an L0 or L00 ring could be seized too tight for a mere hook spanner- beating on it. It is deforming the ring and making it tighter so there is a different way ahead.

 

[thermite]

So glad I see exactly what you said. I mean even an L0 or L00 ring could be seized too tight for a mere hook spanner- beating on it. It is deforming the ring and making it tighter so there is a different way ahead.

Tighter/looser, tighter/looser.. crunch a smidgen of any trapped debris, each cycle.

It has to be short of permanent or "plastic" deformation. However .."elastic" or springs-back deformation applies to lots of things we don't realize CAN move and not break or deform permanently.

Not news. SOP for popping tie-rod ends, OTOH, those are tapered so, "of course".

How many times have we had to deal with PREVENTING a fastener working loose?

This is one of the contributors to that as can now and then be given an honest job for the good guys, too.

Ignorant vibration applied at NON-opposing points can be another, sometimes. But it is more work and less.. shall we say "elegant" given that when the Gods are smiling, just-so, this trick has been known to work on the very first go.

If so.. show no emotion. Unseemly for a Wizard, especially newly-minted ones, y'see.

The goal is to make hard things look easy.

Tough act to follow!

 

[gbent]

Success with no blood showing. Good job.

If a similar situation occurs, use a steel hammer rather than a dead blow. Bigger is better. Walter A has made L series wrenches to order, you might look up his post and see if he still offers them.

A local compressor plant would tension large (5"-8") slugging wrenches with the overhead crane and then slug them tight with a 20# sledge. If the nut tightened down, they would run a choker under the compressor to pull down.

 

[Blackrainstorm]

Ha, yeah, the engine hoist couldn’t get any closer because of the casting on the lathe. Otherwise I would have run the ram in much, much further. I applied enough pressure on the hoist and watched as it flexed until I was uncomfortable.

The final hammer was a steel-faced, heavy deadblow.

The pallet jack was a later addition. A friend dropped it by and there wasn’t really any other place to put it at the moment. My garage/shop is a total cluster**** right now.

I was pretty desperate—I was running up against the clock to when I am rearranging my shop and I needed to know if I could get the crappy braze-repaired chuck off or not.

I am not so sketchy when I actually use machines, and don’t start quite as sketchy when first attempting removal of stuck things. Though things always tend to devolve into redneck land

 

[Frank R]

Should I put an anti-seize type of grease on my chucks before installing them?

 

[Dumpster_diving]

Just clean (brake clean) and remove any swarf or grit. Then light machine oil wiped on, then mostly off to leave a thin coating.

 

[johnoder]

Glad to see that you turned it the right way

 

[jwearing]

I’m no expert but I think it’s too much force on the spindle and bearings. How is your runout?

 

[johnoder]

I’m no expert but I think it’s too much force on the spindle and bearings. How is your runout?

ATW liked to post those bearing capacities. 9200 Lbs at 100 RPM on the 14"- just on the front

 

[Illinoyance]

Lifting a load beyond the footprint of the hoist scares the crap out of me. You could have made a wooden chuck block to support the chuck. Once the chuck was loose you just slide the block and chuck down the bed to where you can get the hoist positioned properly.

 

[Blackrainstorm]

In regards to too much force on the chuck, I am sure the engine hoist would have crumpled before it reached anywhere near that amount. Plus, if the chuck wouldn’t come off, there was no hope for the lathe as that chuck is unusable (rusted to hell and someone has wrecked the jaws and attempted to braze them back together—no way I am using it)

In regards to the engine hoist, the hoist is being used to put pressure on the hook spanner to unscrew the L1 mounting nut. So no real choice on hoist position down on the bed. Removing the chuck? Hell, I just picked that sucker up by hand, only a 10” or so.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'd be more concerned about damaging the gearing to be honest. But as we say over here " Who Dares Wins ".

I think it was John Noder who came up with what I consider to be the best way to remove a seized on chuck many years ago. I was impressed anyway. If you're reading this John am I correct ? Don't be modest.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[Garwood]

Strange it has an L nose. Must have been some kind of special order. I have the same lathe, 1967 even, just mines twice as long and it has the camlock spindle. Camlock seamed pretty prevalent from the 1950's onward.

 

[DavidScott]

I'd be more concerned about damaging the gearing to be honest.

Doesn't the crescent wrench take those loads?

 

[Blackrainstorm]

I was sort of under the impression that American recommended the L nose by default. Most lathes I have seen have an L nose. Their literature seems to suggest it too. But maybe by the late 60s the prevalence of the camlock was winning out.

 

[Glug]

I was sort of under the impression that American recommended the L nose by default.

IIRC, there is a video (or was it just photos?) that touts the superiority of the L taper and even shows parts being cut directly on the spindle - no chuck.

ATW liked to post those bearing capacities. 9200 Lbs at 100 RPM on the 14"- just on the front

This comes up every so often but never with the complete spec. The catalog says "at 100 rpm".