ERP show down. Jobboss or E2. Current feelings on both?

[make_machine]

We just started the process of working with a local software developer to help integrate our custom quoting program into the JobBOSS workflow. We're defining goals & scope of work now, so not sure yet how they will compare to JobBOSS.

After the experience we had with the JobBOSS implementation folks, we decided to work with a third party rather than go back to JobBOSS.

That makes sense. What quoting program do you have? We're thinking of doing the same, I'd love to get a referral if you know someone who can do this.

 

[The Dude]

Historically it has been the other way around. Most of the work we do is is 3 or less ops so WIP isn't really a problem. We have such short lead times that the part is to the customer before the material certs are even entered into the system. The inspection report, which is still filled out by hand, might sit on a pile for a week or two before its entered.

When a customer calls up and asks for the C of C I have to look around a bit to find them the answer.

Good answer! If you don't mind, if I am understanding correctly, you're interested in WIP tracking (typically accomplished by scanning). If the orders travel through the shop so quickly, why do you need to track them? Don't let the sales guy sell you something you don't really need. Any WIP tracking station is just another "license" for them so that's what they're trying to sell you.

The Dude

 

[Plater47]

That makes sense. What quoting program do you have? We're thinking of doing the same, I'd love to get a referral if you know someone who can do this.

We built a custom MS Access database in-house probably 20 years ago. Our bookkeeper taught herself Access DB development and created it. Unfortunately, she has not maintained that skill set and lost the knowledge in the meantime. That's why we're out looking for a vendor to help.

They're currently investigating further to confirm they can get the two programs talking to each other and will give me a quote if they can complete the project. If they can, I'd be happy to provide their contact info.

 

[gwill1010]

I'm a full time s/w developer, but have been doing IT work for a shop for 15 years. I've written a bunch of apps that interworks with E2. Most recently we have implemented Trello to track jobs in the shop. Job and parts are automatically created in Trello. I've just started to look for work that leverages my understanding of the E2 database. It's a bear.

 

[DocSteel]

Playing catchup here since I'm a few weeks late to this thread. My personal take is to look beyond JobBOSS and E2. They do a decent job for being on the simple end of the spectrum, but they were also both built in 1984. I think if you're just looking for a quick stop-gap/band-aid solution they're fine since they're inexpensive. But if you're looking for something a little more intelligent that you can grow with for 10+ years I'd suggest you find something more modern. You should look into WorkClout or Fulcrum (links below). I believe both integrate with JobBOSS @make_machine


I've suggested this on another thread, but in regards to quoting there's a couple routes you can go. Paperless Parts is doing some cool things where you upload drawings and it can spit out the data to include on your quote. Depending on the complexity of your shop and/or drawings this could save you some time. Fulcrum (mentioned above) also has their own standalone quoting module that can be customized and looks user-friendly.

If you're a 1-10 man shop Excel spreadsheets and/or Access could be the most cost-efficient way to go, but if you're larger than that I'd imagine you're just creating more manual work that's likely negatively impacting your bottom line in ways that aren't readily apparent. Finally, you mentioned scanning. These are cool devices by Infinite Peripherals that do scanning and picture taking/uploading into ERPs (link below). They're a little more expensive than your cheapo scanner, but have way more functionality. Really depends on the size of your shop and/or what you're trying to accomplish.

Hope this is helpful as I think the best way to keep manufacturing thriving in our country is to find modern, forward-thinking technology and share it with everybody I can!

Fulcrum: Cloud Manufacturing ERP - For Everyone
WorkClout ∙ Modern Manufacturing Software for Factories
ITAR Compliant Job Shop Manufacturing Software | Paperless Parts
Imperea | Infinite Peripherals

 

[thunderskunk]

I’m planning on getting Pro-Shop. The scheduling is really appealing to me; almost like a Microsoft project but one that actually works. I don’t think I have near the capacity to use it to it’s full potential, but I’ve used JobBoss and I hate it with a passion.

You can get it on a server, but I am opting for the cloud. I don’t know much about clouds, but what I do know is computers are advancing too fast to make a server investment worth it; $2k for anything worth anything and even then still need IT support. Up to date for maybe 4 years if you’re lucky. I’ve spent at least four weeks worth total of full time work troubleshooting server related issues at various jobs, always because it’s out of date. In my mind, an improperly secured and out of date server is a bigger security risk than outside file management, and cloud stuff is cheaper. Apparently, kids do everything on this cloud, so traditional file management is “old school.” Well I don’t plan on doing everything, so if that’s how the new guy wants it, I’m cool with it so long as it works.

I’m fishing for opinions, so feel free to knock my assumptions down. I’d appreciate it actually. I only have bad experiences with ERP, not good ones.

 

[as9100d]

We use Shoptech and just recently upgraded to the web version. I could not be happier with an ERP. I often find myself looking at things and keeping track of items while away from the shop.

 

[empower]

I’m planning on getting Pro-Shop. The scheduling is really appealing to me; almost like a Microsoft project but one that actually works. I don’t think I have near the capacity to use it to it’s full potential, but I’ve used JobBoss and I hate it with a passion.

You can get it on a server, but I am opting for the cloud. I don’t know much about clouds, but what I do know is computers are advancing too fast to make a server investment worth it; $2k for anything worth anything and even then still need IT support. Up to date for maybe 4 years if you’re lucky. I’ve spent at least four weeks worth total of full time work troubleshooting server related issues at various jobs, always because it’s out of date. In my mind, an improperly secured and out of date server is a bigger security risk than outside file management, and cloud stuff is cheaper. Apparently, kids do everything on this cloud, so traditional file management is “old school.” Well I don’t plan on doing everything, so if that’s how the new guy wants it, I’m cool with it so long as it works.

I’m fishing for opinions, so feel free to knock my assumptions down. I’d appreciate it actually. I only have bad experiences with ERP, not good ones.

i've heard good things about pro-shop. we saw them at westec on tuesday, pretty impressive but interface seems a bit too busy IMO.

 

[The Dude]

You can get it on a server, but I am opting for the cloud. I don’t know much about clouds, but what I do know is computers are advancing too fast to make a server investment worth it; $2k for anything worth anything and even then still need IT support. Up to date for maybe 4 years if you’re lucky. I’ve spent at least four weeks worth total of full time work troubleshooting server related issues at various jobs, always because it’s out of date. In my mind, an improperly secured and out of date server is a bigger security risk than outside file management, and cloud stuff is cheaper. Apparently, kids do everything on this cloud, so traditional file management is “old school.” Well I don’t plan on doing everything, so if that’s how the new guy wants it, I’m cool with it so long as it works.

I’m fishing for opinions, so feel free to knock my assumptions down. I’d appreciate it actually. I only have bad experiences with ERP, not good ones.

Don't want to hijack the thread but I am using office 365 which is both cloud and local. It has made a HUGE productivity improvement in terms of being able to access "anything and anywhere", whether it's an Office file or not. Camera, email, calendar, pretty much everything is synchronized. It has a few bugs on occasion but nothing that's ever been as bad as a server crash. If you're a smaller company, I'd definitely consider it. For $99/year (I think that's just a single user), I can load Office on up to 5 devices with 5 terabytes of storage. That's both cheap and huge.

As far as ERP experience, I can say this in general: too many people/companies don't do enough research to find the best system. Too much listening to the sales people who say "our system can be customized to do anything!". Then you buy it and the implementation people say "Well....that's not "standard" or something else that makes the "reality" less clear. Do your research and, while this thread can be helpful, try to find a non-competitor in a similar industry (i.e. job shop) and see if they can demo it for you WITHOUT a sales guy there. Once you get "in" on a system, it's very hard to do (divorce is much more difficult and expensive than marriage).

The Dude

 

[ShopPlanner]

I’m planning on getting Pro-Shop. The scheduling is really appealing to me; almost like a Microsoft project but one that actually works.

To make a purchasing decision based on scheduling capability of software, the evaluation of the software on shop floor with real job data (from target production system) for a few weeks for scheduling purpose will give more confidence than the look and feel or a quick demo of the software during a trade show.

True practical value of scheduling software for any specific job shop will be known mostly through the usage on shop floor for a few weeks. In my opinion, a vast majority of ERP users among job shops are not happy with the performance of scheduling modules of their ERP systems. Salespersons are experts to present wonderful software demos and impress potential users.

 

[as9100d]

Here is what we use.

 

[HenryM]

@DocSteel

I can concur that WorkClout is definitely an amazing solution. I've been using them for the past year and I saw a huge impactful difference than when I used JobBoss. We originally integrated JobBoss to WorkClout, but WorkClout ended up being our source of truth and tracking, we ended up just going full WorkClout at the end.

You should definitely check a demo: www.workclout.com

 

[hsma1020]

Had a demo today and was impressed. Just waiting on a quote.

 

[hsma1020]

Longtime E2 user but gave up on the scheduling module 10 years ago. Anybody know if it has gotten any better? I had a Realtrac demo today and was impressed.

 

[ShopPlanner]

Longtime E2 user but gave up on the scheduling module 10 years ago. Anybody know if it has gotten any better? I had a Realtrac demo today and was impressed.

Nowadays, E2 software is getting heavily advertised on internet for its scheduling capability. It would be nice if its vendor openly responds to this kind of genuine inquiries from job shops. Vendors of some other ERP software (for job shops) are also advertising the scheduling capability of their products. I am not sure any ERP software has a truly powerful, versatile software module for general job shop production.

I wonder how many job shops evaluated the scheduling module of their ERP software for their production before purchasing the ERP software. For assessing the practical merit of scheduling software, there is a big difference between watching a demo and evaluating software with the help of real production data at least for a few days.

 

[Defiant CNC]

I developed an ERP system for my shop in Florida and have opted to build custom systems for other small machine shops. Our ERP system consists of (1) designing a database specifically for your company, (2) automating routine tasks and (3) integrating our software/automations with your current technology. We will work with you to develop the appropriate strategy for your business.

We create custom databases for our customers using Airtable and leverage the power of Zapier to automate routine tasks. Zapier also allows our system to communicate with other API friendly applications, including but not limited to Quickbooks, Google Drive, PayPal, Stripe, Microsoft Office 365, Gmail, social media platforms, etc. Our database acts as a central hub to manage job scheduling, workflow, inventory, human resources, customer relationships, sales & marketing, finances, quality control and machine maintenance.

I would be happy to give you a demonstration via Zoom or Whereby. Here are a couple short demo videos.
YouTube
YouTube

 

[as9100d]

Longtime E2 user but gave up on the scheduling module 10 years ago. Anybody know if it has gotten any better? I had a Realtrac demo today and was impressed.

Should checkout the e2 web they have now. its night and day better than the old system. they redid it from the ground up.

 

[ShopPlanner]

Should checkout the e2 web they have now. its night and day better than the old system. they redid it from the ground up.

I guess you are talking about the creation of cloud version of E2 software which may be very impressive and much better than the on-site version of E2. But, is there any authentic evidence from shop floors that there is a significant improvement particularly in the scheduling capability of new version of E2?

 

[as9100d]

I guess you are talking about the creation of cloud version of E2 software which may be very impressive and much better than the on-site version of E2. But, is there any authentic evidence from shop floors that there is a significant improvement particularly in the scheduling capability of new version of E2?

Well as I just said, I use it daily in my shop and they didnt just convert the old system to the cloud version (which is really an online version not just cloud, you can technically host the software locally if you want or you can pay for their hosted version aka cloud)

That said, the scheduling capability of the new version is a big improvement over the non web based version. They build it completely from scratch.

 

[Defiant CNC]

For my shop, I created a custom Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) system using Airtable and Zapier. Now, I build custom systems for other shops. I also create automations for routine tasks and document creation (e.g. Routers, Internal Certs, First Article Reports, etc.)

Our ERP gives you a built-in PDM system, since you can store all your CAM Files, G-code, Setup Documents, Tool Data, Fixturing and any other data that needs to be tied to a step in your process of making a part. I would be happy to give you a demo if you are interested. You can also check out our website Defiant CNC | or email me at [email protected].