Esprit fail or victim of their success?

[BOB-OO]

Just wanted some opinions from our community...

I contacted Esprit to get a demo and evaluate their product mid December 2021. After having a decent conversation with a Sales Manager who will remain nameless, I was told they only had time to demo the product- 5 axis, multi channel mill turn(40K+ w training and posts) to customers who were looking to make a purchase before the end of year. Strange but OK I get it, and asked said person to contact me when they had time. He didn't, I spent my time on youtube trying to get a feel for the package. Called again mid January and said I had evaluated the other products, Esprit was the last and I would need a demo this month and would be buying this month. They set a meeting date for tomorrow.

Got an email this morning, "Sales Manger" said his demo guy got the vid and they would not be able to demo the software. If I needed them to do a demo he "would just have to pass". He had previously explained that they were so successful that they offered no discounts because they didn't need to and were incredibly busy.

Did I run into the worst sales manager in the country? The software must be good because they'd be out of business with a sales organization like this. I've experienced such poor pre sale customer service, how hard it is to do a demo-online-with your parts not mine? Over a month and a half, not not able to demo their product on gotomeeting.

Not sure what to say about that but thought you guys should know if you want to see there stuff plan far far ahead. Looks like I'll be spending my 5 figures elsewhere.

Anyone else run into this w Esprit?

 

[gregormarwick]

You did better than me.

I contacted Esprit for a demo here in the UK about a year ago and they didn't even bother to call me back.

I scratched them off the list and didn't try again.

 

[goooose]

Sounds like you're dealing with a sales only type guy, not capable of doing a demo and is not wanting to lose any of his commission by cutting someone else into the deal. Go around him and go directly to corporate. There is a link right on their webpage, 'Request a Demo'. Use that, then use a different sales guy if you decide to buy...don't give that guy the sale!

...keep in mind Esprit doesn't have resellers so if you are having an issue with service, just go straight to the main office (california) and you'll be sorted in no time.

 

[Shawnrs]

I can probably get 100 seats of fusion 360

 

[BOB-OO]

Sounds like you're dealing with a sales only type guy, not capable of doing a demo and is not wanting to lose any of his commission by cutting someone else into the deal. Go around him and go directly to corporate. There is a link right on their webpage, 'Request a Demo'. Use that, then use a different sales guy if you decide to buy...don't give that guy the sale!

...keep in mind Esprit doesn't have resellers so if you are having an issue with service, just go straight to the main office (california) and you'll be sorted in no time.

That is exactly what I did, and was contacted by Esprit's Area Sales Manager.

 

[goooose]

Re-read your post and seems like you're leaving some info out here.

You sent him a video to review and then base a product demo on this? And since he's mentioned there is no discount I can only assume that means you are bringing that up for some reason? Reading between the lines has me thinking he's seeing you as someone looking for a bargaining chip for the purchase of other software, not someone who is really interested in Esprit.

 

[triumph406]

Good sales people can ussually determine quickly if an enquiry is going to lead to a sale, or be a waste of their time, when the contact is either a time waster or annoying.

 

[BOB-OO]

Re-read your post and seems like you're leaving some info out here.

You sent him a video to review and then base a product demo on this? And since he's mentioned there is no discount I can only assume that means you are bringing that up for some reason? Reading between the lines has me thinking he's seeing you as someone looking for a bargaining chip for the purchase of other software, not someone who is really interested in Esprit.

No, he suggested in Dec that I review the Esprit on youtube because they couldn't do a demo at that time. During our 1st conversation he provided the quick estimated price and stated there were no discounts-I never asked him for a discount he brought it up. I was attempting to be accommodating and didn't ask or require they do a demo on MY part, I would have accepted a demo of any part.

I own a bunch of CAD and CAM seats. A fair exchange of energy (money/product/time) is required in every successful transaction. I will be buying another CAM this week, it won't be Esprit. In 20 years of using these products I've never experienced any issue arranging a demo.

It must be really great software.

 

[escapethewrmhole]

No, he suggested in Dec that I review the Esprit on youtube because they couldn't do a demo at that time. During our 1st conversation he provided the quick estimated price and stated there were no discounts-I never asked him for a discount he brought it up. I was attempting to be accommodating and didn't ask or require they do a demo on MY part, I would have accepted a demo of any part.

I own a bunch of CAD and CAM seats. A fair exchange of energy (money/product/time) is required in every successful transaction. I will be buying another CAM this week, it won't be Esprit. In 20 years of using these products I've never experienced any issue arranging a demo.

It must be really great software.

My sales experience couldn’t have been more different. My guy was helpful and responsive I have his contact info if you’re interested. That said they didn’t really do trials when I purchased, not that those are the same as demos.

Overall I’m pleased with the product, but there are things mastercam and fusion are way better at on the milling side when it comes to HEM/HSM paths. Drilling in esprit s the most powerful and easy to do unusual cycles with incredible ease. I’m still under 1 year into esprit. I do have some complaints though

 

[BOB-OO]

My sales experience couldn’t have been more different. My guy was helpful and responsive I have his contact info if you’re interested. That said they didn’t really do trials when I purchased, not that those are the same as demos.

Overall I’m pleased with the product, but there are things mastercam and fusion are way better at on the milling side when it comes to HEM/HSM paths. Drilling in esprit s the most powerful and easy to do unusual cycles with incredible ease. I’m still under 1 year into esprit. I do have some complaints though

Thank you, I appreciate your offer and would have asked for your contact last week but have just run out of time, I would have liked to evaluate it.
I think we can all say there is something in every package we don't like or doesn't quite work as advertised but I'm glad to hear Esprit is working out for you.
I do believe I've found the best system for my company and will be placing the PO tomorrow.

 

[HAC]

I would be interested to know what system you decided on and the type of work you perform.

 

[BluishInventor]

I recently evaluated and purchased a new CAM package for our shop last spring. Esprit was on the list. We had an in person demo which lasted about 3hrs(they came to us and happened to be in the area anyways). I also had 1 or 2 web meetings with them where they demonstrated some additional details as I was narrowing down my choices. Though, they seemed to cut some corners in the demos by saying that 'yeah, we can do that' but not actually show me. I guess I could've pressed harder for that, but didn't because of time constraints and took their word on it for the time being. <-- Advice, don't take their word for it, have them show you.

I felt that there was still some research to do with Esprit and things didn't come together quick enough as my deadline was approaching. They were pretty busy and again a fair bit of 'yeah, we can do that'.

Overall, I think their software seems decent for a lot of places. They heavily emphasized the 'Digital Twin' system which I can summarize as one of the better Virtual Machine builders. Though, we wouldn't use it as often as a production shop that has multiple machines of the same type. We are a prototyping shop and we have quite the variety of equipment. And sometimes we just want a path and not full machine sim with collision detection.

So, I could agree that they are busy. But a sales person not engaging with a potential customer for end of year numbers seems a bit lame. My first question to that would be, is this what support will be like? A waiting game? Or being blown off for trivial issues? I don't know.

Seems like everyone has quite a bit of work lined up these days. The lack of experts in the field spread across multiple CAM systems and resellers makes it hard for any to succeed really well, IMO. We've been lucky in that regard with all the folks we have worked with. But I can still see them struggling to keep up.

 

[BOB-OO]

Thank you for the info Bluish!
HAC,I decided on SolidCAM. They have been excellent to deal with, responsive, extremely knowledgeable(applications) and I was impressed with the imachining tool paths(should save us tooling & roughing time) and the multi-channel capability sync & adjusting simultaneous ops for Integrex & swiss. Most of our work begins in Solidworks so integration is a plus and not having to learn another CAD is great, the interface is very easy and consistent between setting up different ops and has lots of canned cycles(toolbox) for ops we run on many different parts. They also seem to be very committed to development, I really believe they desire to have the best the product on the market and they might just be that capable-maybe.

I'm sure I'll find things I hate, but it looks real good right now, I believe it will save me my time-ask me again in 60 days, after working with their training & post development guys.

 

[BluishInventor]

Good to hear you settled on something you feel is best for you and your situation. No CAM system is perfect and I doubt any will ever be. You just gotta go with what fits your needs best, and that's what you did. So, kudos and good luck!

 

[Machinerer]

My sales experience couldn’t have been more different. My guy was helpful and responsive I have his contact info if you’re interested. That said they didn’t really do trials when I purchased, not that those are the same as demos.

Overall I’m pleased with the product, but there are things mastercam and fusion are way better at on the milling side when it comes to HEM/HSM paths. Drilling in esprit s the most powerful and easy to do unusual cycles with incredible ease. I’m still under 1 year into esprit. I do have some complaints though

Interesting that you say that. I'm a former Esprit user, who is now using Mastercam, and I found Esprit to be much easier, and more powerful when it comes to dynamic, or profit milling. I suppose a lot of that has to do with what type of user you are, HOW you use the software, and what you learned on.

As far as the demo, and sales guy goes....the sales guy for the southeast was much better to work with than what you're describing. Happy to demo, or show toolpath. Even brought one of their AE's to our shop to show some of the features. I wonder if any of this experience has to do with the sale to Hexagon?

 

[Zeuserdoo]

Interesting that you say that. I'm a former Esprit user, who is now using Mastercam, and I found Esprit to be much easier, and more powerful when it comes to dynamic, or profit milling. I suppose a lot of that has to do with what type of user you are, HOW you use the software, and what you learned on.

As far as the demo, and sales guy goes....the sales guy for the southeast was much better to work with than what you're describing. Happy to demo, or show toolpath. Even brought one of their AE's to our shop to show some of the features. I wonder if any of this experience has to do with the sale to Hexagon?

I was wondering this also. Since their sale to Hexagon they have seemed a little flaky.

 

[escapethewrmhole]

Interesting that you say that. I'm a former Esprit user, who is now using Mastercam, and I found Esprit to be much easier, and more powerful when it comes to dynamic, or profit milling. I suppose a lot of that has to do with what type of user you are, HOW you use the software, and what you learned on.

As far as the demo, and sales guy goes....the sales guy for the southeast was much better to work with than what you're describing. Happy to demo, or show toolpath. Even brought one of their AE's to our shop to show some of the features. I wonder if any of this experience has to do with the sale to Hexagon?

It's definitely reasonable that this is a user problem. I know how to achieve exactly what I want in mastercam easily and efficiently. I am still struggling with esprit milling.

 

[Dan B]

I was wondering this also. Since their sale to Hexagon they have seemed a little flaky.

I've been disappointed with WorkNC since Hexagon acquired it.

 

[BarnFab]

Thank you for the info Bluish!
HAC,I decided on SolidCAM. They have been excellent to deal with, responsive, extremely knowledgeable(applications) and I was impressed with the imachining tool paths(should save us tooling & roughing time) and the multi-channel capability sync & adjusting simultaneous ops for Integrex & swiss. Most of our work begins in Solidworks so integration is a plus and not having to learn another CAD is great, the interface is very easy and consistent between setting up different ops and has lots of canned cycles(toolbox) for ops we run on many different parts. They also seem to be very committed to development, I really believe they desire to have the best the product on the market and they might just be that capable-maybe.

I'm sure I'll find things I hate, but it looks real good right now, I believe it will save me my time-ask me again in 60 days, after working with their training & post development guys.

Are you still happy with SolidCAM ? I am looking for an option for a Live Tooled Sub Spindle Mill and with eSprit at $15k plus $2k a year sub wondering what SolidCAM costs ?

 

[ViktorasCNC]

If I may add some input on this. I've been using ESPRIT 20XX since last September so nearly a year.
I've worked for a small company that had ESPRIT 20XX for swiss lathe and I kinda hated it at first, but this company did not have Software Maintenance Agreement.

Later I switched job. I've joined a company that has 60+ CNC machines and is using ESPRIT to program wide variety of machines. This company also happened to be a reseller of ESPRIT since DP Technology times.

After Hexagon's acquisition of DP Technology, things have been changing (for better) and some resellers did not adapt quick enough, so there was a gap of misunderstandings during transition.
My current opinion of ESPRIT 20XX and ESPRIT TNG is that it's likely the most hacker'ish CAM software, as you can write your own extensions using Visual Basic or C# automating or extending functionality, I mean I've made some extensions myself.

I also did quite a lot of research including this forum and similar ones digging discussions. So one of the publicly acknowledged weaknesses of ESPRIT was it's CAD side and its not that you cannot do something, but that it's less intuitive than in traditional CAD software,
but even this weakness was sorted by Hexagon introducing DESIGNER which you get free of charge along ESPRIT if you are on SMA(software maintenance agreement).

As for demonstrations they actually take time. I'm wondering which company OP was contacting. Was it DP Technology, HMI or some Reseller, because it depends on the channels you use, what answers you are going to get.