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Ev batteries and lithium supply

plastikdreams

Diamond
Joined
May 31, 2011
Location
upstate nj
I browsed an article the other day on the amount of available lithium and the current demand with all the ev's being built that there's not enough lithium. This is from a lithium expert and Elon musk is involved in the conversation...
In the next two years, even though there will be significant growth in supply, it will be less than demand, so the gap will just continue to grow

Article link:
A top lithium expert agrees with Elon Musk that there’s not enough of the crucial metal to meet booming demand
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
I'm actually interested in wtf we are gonna do with all these batteries when they are spent. Thats a lot of hazardous waste, unless someone comes up with a regen system.

VERY valid HUGE point....which shows it's not about the planet....this whole big green push is just big-business making and (force) selling, more product.
How many years before the 'leccy car craze become "dirty" and then the push is made for hydrogen....?
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
it took biodiesel about 10 years to become "dirty",when the urban greens were sold the "orange monkey in every tank" mantra....(no ,not trump!),and now there is incredible urban green hate for palm oil . Too late though,as 1/2 of Asia is covered with oil plantations........Ive seen claims of 8 ton of nuts per hectare ,which is a good yield....In temperate climates ,various seed oils are quite viable,but again much green hate ,as green hate for IC is now a religion.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
it took biodiesel about 10 years to become "dirty",when the urban greens were sold the "orange monkey in every tank" mantra....(no ,not trump!),and now there is incredible urban green hate for palm oil . Too late though,as 1/2 of Asia is covered with oil plantations........Ive seen claims of 8 ton of nuts per hectare ,which is a good yield....In temperate climates ,various seed oils are quite viable,but again much green hate ,as green hate for IC is now a religion.

Ha ha.

“ Ive seen claims of 8 ton of nuts per hectare ,which is a good yield....In temperate climates ,various seed oils are quite viable,but again much green hate ,as green hate for IC is now a religion.”

There must be a lot more nuts per Hectare than 8 tons than that look at how many we see and hear on a daily basis. They are all over the world. :)
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Lithium is used in many different products from paint to grease, to pharmaceuticals. I wonder how it's going to affect pricing?

Alex,,,,I'll take price increase for $100.

Elon Musk builds EVs and knows more than most about batteries. Musk is playing the long game.

Musk speaks-(actually tweets)--it's news and people react. Musk mentions lithium and shortage and people (some) look to invest. Musk (just guessing) already has holdings.

Musk makes more money. More people hate on Musk and thier heads explode.

EVs, Batteries, and the raw materials to make them. $$ Ka-Ching $$
 

Pathogen

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Capacitors can do the job of a battery once they find a nice way to throttle back the instantaneous current, like a q switch in a laser.

Charging would be faster than pumping 10 gallons of gas.

Charging stations for capacitor powered EV storage could be boosted on the road periodically and eliminate stopping to charge altogether
 

Larry Dickman

Titanium
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Location
Temecula, Ca
where there's a will, there's a way

Lithium beneath the Salton Sea The geothermal field beneath California’s Salton Sea contains brine that may hold from one to six million metric tons of lithium, an essential element for producing batteries. A Berkeley Lab study aims to evaluate the resource. February 22, 2022 William Driscoll Research California
 

IninefingersI

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Doo Dah, Kansas
VERY valid HUGE point....which shows it's not about the planet....this whole big green push is just big-business making and (force) selling, more product.
How many years before the 'leccy car craze become "dirty" and then the push is made for hydrogen....?

The rabid environmentalists aren't really keen on consistency. The two primary methods of producing lithium are strip mining, and a process similar to fracking. Strip mining and fracking are destroying the planet. Lithium batteries will save it, I guess.
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
The rabid environmentalists aren't really keen on consistency. The two primary methods of producing lithium are strip mining, and a process similar to fracking. Strip mining and fracking are destroying the planet. Lithium batteries will save it, I guess.

What if you use nuclear to doo the blasting & fracking ?
No fossil fuels expended....:D
 

jaguar36

Cast Iron
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
SE, PA
I'm actually interested in wtf we are gonna do with all these batteries when they are spent. Thats a lot of hazardous waste, unless someone comes up with a regen system.

They'll be recycled. The ex-CTO of Tesla has already started a battery recycling company (Redwood). However its going to be a very long time until the batteries are 'spent'. When they are no longer viable for an EV (~20 years) they will still have a ton of value for stationary storage.

Tesla seems to have a process worked out to extract lithium from clay deposits which are very plentiful.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
The rabid environmentalists aren't really keen on consistency. The two primary methods of producing lithium are strip mining, and a process similar to fracking. Strip mining and fracking are destroying the planet. Lithium batteries will save it, I guess.

For the time being the U.S. will source it's needs from a country that is more concerned about using manufacturing to provide jobs and a vibrant economy. Right now that would be China.

Jiangxi Ganfeng Lithium (OTC Pink:GNENF,SZSE:002460)

"The mining company has interests in lithium resources around the world, including Australia, Argentina, China and Ireland, but its primary source of lithium raw materials is Mount Marion in Western Australia."

Like most everything that is not PC to do in the United States....outsource it.

7 Biggest Lithium-mining Companies in 2022 | INN
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
They'll be recycled. The ex-CTO of Tesla has already started a battery recycling company (Redwood). However its going to be a very long time until the batteries are 'spent'. When they are no longer viable for an EV (~20 years) they will still have a ton of value for stationary storage.

Tesla seems to have a process worked out to extract lithium from clay deposits which are very plentiful.

Think the first small batch of spent EV batteries will probably be those in the GM "Spark" (2013-2016) as it was announced there are no more replacement batteries and no plans to produce any. That being said it is a small number of vehicles and appears to be a small battery. I do not know the make-up of the battery.
 








 
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