Export Controls . . . only when convenient?

[Milland]

Not sure how to respond to someone like "Freedom" when what he writes is divorced from everything except paranoiac delusion.

 

[EmGo]

Brentton Woods baby. We do control the world.

Wow. All I can say is Quintili Vare, legiones redde !

Now gotta go pack, we're off to Nicopolis !

 

[gkoenig]

Wow. All I can say is Quintili Vare, legiones redde !

Now gotta go pack, we're off to Nicopolis !

Go read a more recent history book and tell me how the Post WWII years have worked out for the global economy under the definitive US leadership explicitly outlined under Brentton Woods.

By every objective measure, the last 60 years has been the most monumental improvement of the human condition ever experienced. It makes the transition to agriculture look like a step backwards. The global economy, designed, implemented, and enabled by the United States saw more people pulled out of poverty, more people pulled out of starvation, more people pulled out of authoritarian rule, and fewer people killed in violent conflict than any time in history - and all of that is per capita, so it happened while the global population almost tripled.

You're very welcome.

 

[Freedommachine]

Not sure how to respond to someone like "Freedom" when what he writes is divorced from everything except paranoiac delusion.

I offered to provide proof to support my statement. Instead, you choose insults over intellect. You're right Millie; I dumb, you smart.


"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

 

[Freedommachine]

you do that business in American dollars, because we control the world's currency.

What do you mean we?

The federal reserve bank (a private corporation) owns the world currency. We the tax cattle are merely collateral.

You wanna ship anything across the ocean blue? You do so under the loving protection of the US Navy.

You think America is just a bunch of dumb yokles? We have our moments, but we certainly are looking like the best of the worst over the last few years. You wanna live under Honey Bear Jinping? You can kiss my ass with the notion that we're somehow extra savage - the this guy runs a country with a few million people in concentration camps and they have execution busses.

We are the least worst option for global leadership, and we are withdrawing. You don't like us? That's fine... but you're about to watch the world get really fair, really quickly. It's going to be a disaster.



I'm no fan of Biden, but we're basically defeating the world's 3rd largest military, a near-peer adversary for the last 60 years, and doing so for probably about $200 Billion when all is said and done, and not a drop of American blood spilt.

You want to talk about governments making poor decisions for their people? America is a place of decadence where sure, like 15% of our citizens live in poverty - you know, in houses, with cell phones, TVs, internet, running water, electricity, and so much food, obesity is a far bigger problem than starvation. Out of the 7 Billion people on this planet, about 6 Billion of them would literally kill to be a "poor" person in America being taken such terrible advantage of by our government.

Putin, on the other hand, has taken a country in the stages of a catastrophic demographic collapse, and decided to throw 20% of his population under the age of 30 into a meat grinder to be chewed up by NATO proxy forces. For what? Absolutely nothing. Again, please shove this notion that America is somehow just terrible to it's people when you've got Putin literally acceleration his demographic catastrophe with no upside. 50% of that remaining population of young men will die of cirrhosis before the age of 52.

This is true, I would not disagree with most of your facts. However, "we" are not on the inside just because we have citizenship within these united states.

This nation is a cesspool of corruption just like any other. Yes, it is OUR cesspool of corruption and as American citizens; we should not defend these actions as "the least worst option". We need to call things our for exactly what they are. The Overton window does not shift merely because other nations are comparatively worse. Never defend or attempt to justify morally reprehensible behavior in favor of the collective. That be what the communist do...

 

[Limy Sami]

Here we go again

 

[gkoenig]

What do you mean we?

The federal reserve bank (a private corporation) owns the world currency. We the tax cattle are merely collateral.

A "private" corporation... overseen by political appointees who serve at the pleasure of an elected executive.

This is true, I would not disagree with most of your facts. However, "we" are not on the inside just because we have citizenship within these united states.

This nation is a cesspool of corruption just like any other. Yes, it is OUR cesspool of corruption and as American citizens; we should not defend these actions as "the least worst option". We need to call things our for exactly what they are. The Overton window does not shift merely because other nations are comparatively worse. Never defend or attempt to justify morally reprehensible behavior in favor of the collective. That be what the communist do...

The problem is one of subjective vs. objective measures - I think this tension underlines the reality of American citizenship these days (and the zeitgeist in general in a post social media world).

Subjectively? It is very easy to demagogue the United States with broad based, emotional attacks about a lack of fairness, or implications of conspiracy (some true, some not), or supposed levels of unprovable corruption that we all feel are obviously true. The problem is that such subjective assessments are very much in the eye of the beholder - I can nod my head along with the arguments you and EG are making and find some truth to them, the difference is that I recognize that these measure are subjective, and often emotional/based on anecdote or common "truths."

Objectively, the United States has led the world through an incomprehensible period of human flourishing. Brentton Woods was a radical departure from the typical strategy of the winners of global conflict (see; WWI), and it revolutionized the planet in immense ways. Domestically, we are a decadent society getting both dumber and smarter by the year. We have internal tensions that seem calamitous, but are objectively solvable once we collectively get our heads out of our asses. For all the talk of corruption and a government fleecing the peoples, our standard of living is the envy of the world for a country of our scale and scope. As I said earlier; for all the talk about how bad we have it, the 6/7 global citizens of the world would do anything possible to be a poor citizen in the USA. The bottom 10% of Americans are living lives of luxury and security that are the absolute envy of 85% of the globe.

What I cannot nod my head with is the notion that we lack the moral standing to combat the Russia of Putin. Hell, the Russia going all the way back to the Bolsheviks. Trying to argue that we are anywhere near each other on some sort of moral ground to the point where we cannot stand up to Russia is just patently absurd.

 

[triumph406]

I'm no fan of Biden, but we're basically defeating the world's 3rd largest military, a near-peer adversary for the last 60 years, and doing so for probably about $200 Billion when all is said and done, and not a drop of American blood spilt.

Also I like that the US, and Europe gets to test weapons systems at the Russians expense.

I worked on some of the R&D hardware before it ever became public, like the SDB (small diameter bomb) and some longer range guided 155mm ordinance. Glad to see their finally getting used.

 

[EmGo]

the definitive US leadership explicitly outlined under Brentton Woods.

Since this is the second time, I'll guess you really don't know the word, not just fat fingers. It's Bretton Woods, a small city in New Hampshire.

There were many other nations involved, by the way. And most of the best proposals were vetoed by the US.

You're very welcome

Yeah, right. One thing to thank you for -- sometimes I get grumpy, go to three hardware stores and not one of them has the tiny torxdriver I want, or walk all the way up wanghangdu lu for la zi ji and the place is closed ... but none of those annoyances can detract from the joy of living where people are not insane, self-righteous, ignorant, belligerent lunatics. It's lovely.

How come so many people in the US think like this ? Some kind of disease ? You guys are seriously wacked.

 

[standardparts]

It seems there's a such an ease from a certain member when posting vitriol against the USA. I would suggest that a more honest approach would be to look at the unbounded cruelty and evil perpetrated by China and Russia, and ask whether they're more acceptable to that poster?

I am disgusted with Haas. They'll never sell me another machine, and if I need repair parts I'll do my damndest to find alternate sources. F them...

No doubt Haas will suffer.
How many Haas machines are you operating in your facility, and what brand will you replace them with?

 

[Scottl]

It seems there's a such an ease from a certain member when posting vitriol against the USA. I would suggest that a more honest approach would be to look at the unbounded cruelty and evil perpetrated by China and Russia, and ask whether they're more acceptable to that poster?

I am disgusted with Haas. They'll never sell me another machine, and if I need repair parts I'll do my damndest to find alternate sources. F them...

That is your choice but he is correct that a US manufacturer should not be forced to cancel paid for and completed contracts and absorb the cost. Also likely correct that these are not ultra precision machines normally subject to export controls.

Re "unbounded cruelty and evil perpetrated by China and Russia" I would say that a lot of nations don't have clean hands including the USA and Ukraine. The latter under its current tyrant is closing orthodox churches, seizing the properties and arresting priests.

Just as in Kosovo both sides in this conflict have done bad things but just as in that case the "nation builders" (actually more accurately described as nation destroyers) pick one side and the presstitute media obediently describe one as all good and the other as all bad.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That is your choice but he is correct that a US manufacturer should not be forced to cancel paid for and completed contracts and absorb the cost. Also likely correct that these are not ultra precision machines normally subject to export controls.

Re "unbounded cruelty and evil perpetrated by China and Russia" I would say that a lot of nations don't have clean hands including the USA and Ukraine. The latter under its current tyrant is closing orthodox churches, seizing the properties and arresting priests.

Just as in Kosovo both sides in this conflict have done bad things but just as in that case the "nation builders" (actually more accurately described as nation destroyers) pick one side and the presstitute media obediently describe one as all good and the other as all bad.

Then you have ex UK PM Johnson doing anything he could to get the bad news ( Partygate, corruption regarding Covid supplies etc ) off the front page. He couldn’t care less about Ukraine, or anything else other than himself, it was very convenient for him at the time.
Regarding Joe Biden, he couldn’t have another debacle on his hands after the shit show that was the retreat from Afghanistan could he ? Got to show what he’s made of and stand up to Putin.
Just saying what it looks like from this side of the pond.

Regards Tyrone

 

[standardparts]

I have to say, this was surprising . . . having developed quite a bit of machine tool tech with high precision capabilities and ultra high speed spindle apps and jumped through all export control hoops when necessary . . . whoever at Haas has this responsibility is a first class dork.

American company accused of violating sanctions, doing business with Russian arms industry

Russia's economy depends on revenues from oil exports and American sanctions have been tuned up to choke its war effort against Ukraine. But there’s one area important to the Kremlin’s military output that has so far avoided scrutiny. It involves Haas Automation, a high tech American...

www.pbs.org

"Export control hoops"....oversight of those 'hoops' would be someone employed by the current administration. Or not?
Status of a shipment should be able to be tracked in real time, especially if it involves military or strategic tech.
Would be interesting to see the paper trail on this. The 'picatinny rail' parts sort of made laugh.

 

[gustafson]

Go ahead; quote the book of Matthew to Milland and see just how well it is received.





No, that is theft plain and simple. Russia may be doing things they shouldn't but it doesn't mean that if company 'X' buys a machine, you can all of sudden keep their money and refuse to deliver goods.

Ukraine is not a sovereign nation either. They are owned by BlackRock inc and JP Morgan Chase. People need to stop using this "Invasion of a sovereign nation" line as justification for any and all actions. If ABC Machine orders a VMC 4000 from you, than you are required to deliver it, period.

IIRC; 5 axis machines and operating software are the only ones covered by ITAR.

No, I don't "side with Russia" either. I am merely an observer. If you want source information, I'll bring it.

Haas is a Us company and is subject to US laws, your opinion on Ukraine notwithstanding

 

[standardparts]

Then you have ex UK PM Johnson doing anything to get the bad news ( Partygate, corruption regarding Covid supplies etc ) off the front page. He couldn’t care less about Ukraine, or anything other that himself, but it was very convenient for him at the time.
Regarding Joe Biden, he couldn’t have another debacle on his hands after the shit show that was the retreat from Afghanistan could he ? Got to show what he’s made of and stand up to Putin.
Just saying what it looks like from this side of the pond.

Regards Tyrone

Tyrone,
'Shit Show' has become a weekly sitcom here, and it appears to have versions produced in many other countries.

 

[standardparts]

Haas is a Us company and is subject to US laws, your opinion on Ukraine notwithstanding

US laws regarding business and how they are enforced and applied during hostilities become somewhat blurred based on political and financial influence.
Long history involving many companies demonstrate this.

 

[gustafson]

That is your choice but he is correct that a US manufacturer should not be forced to cancel paid for and completed contracts and absorb the cost. Also likely correct that these are not ultra precision machines normally subject to export controls.

Re "unbounded cruelty and evil perpetrated by China and Russia" I would say that a lot of nations don't have clean hands including the USA and Ukraine. The latter under its current tyrant is closing orthodox churches, seizing the properties and arresting priests.

Just as in Kosovo both sides in this conflict have done bad things but just as in that case the "nation builders" (actually more accurately described as nation destroyers) pick one side and the presstitute media obediently describe one as all good and the other as all bad.

Oh brother, is it really necessary to just reprint Moscows propagand verbatum?

Explainer: No, Ukraine’s president hasn’t banned the Orthodox Church - Emerging Europe

A much-shared tweet from a highly questionable source accusing Volodymyr Zelensky of banning Ukraine’s Orthodox Church and arresting priests is way off the mark. When it comes to identifying false news, refusing to take anything that Donald Trump Jr. tweets at face value is a decent rule of...

emerging-europe.com

Yes Ukraine raided one church because they were harboring suspected Russian agents and disseminating propaganda

The head of the Russian Orthodox Church is lead propagandist for Putin, and most but not all Ukrainian churches have cut ties

whataboutwhataboutwhatabout

this is not a logical point of view.

Russia is wrong, period
full stop

 

[Milland]

No doubt Haas will suffer.
How many Haas machines are you operating in your facility, and what brand will you replace them with?

A hot new brand that's coming out of North Korea. They're the BOMB, and they specialize in fast delivery by missile, launched from subs just off shore.

Eh, likely the other Korea when it comes to replacement time. We'll see what makes sense...

 

[Milland]

Oh brother, is it really necessary to just reprint Moscows propagand verbatum?

Explainer: No, Ukraine’s president hasn’t banned the Orthodox Church - Emerging Europe

A much-shared tweet from a highly questionable source accusing Volodymyr Zelensky of banning Ukraine’s Orthodox Church and arresting priests is way off the mark. When it comes to identifying false news, refusing to take anything that Donald Trump Jr. tweets at face value is a decent rule of...

emerging-europe.com

Yes Ukraine raided one church because they were harboring suspected Russian agents and disseminating propaganda

The head of the Russian Orthodox Church is lead propagandist for Putin, and most but not all Ukrainian churches have cut ties

whataboutwhataboutwhatabout

this is not a logical point of view.

Russia is wrong, period
full stop

Can I like this post a few thousand times? Well, I just did...

The head of the ROC (Orthodox Church) is almost certainly ex-KGB (https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...triarch/001a0afb-33ad-46af-8d87-02c01f3b5709/), and the church has been used for intelligence gathering, troop spotting, and other "not so godly" opportunities. They're tied to the government in ways that we in the US don't consider because of our separation of church and state.

So yes, stop with the propaganda propagation. Or explain to me why it's so "holy" to bomb hospitals, schools, and residential buildings...

 

[Milland]

Haas is a Us company and is subject to US laws, your opinion on Ukraine notwithstanding

Not to mention that the guy refers to religious texts when it suits him, then supports off-the-wall conspiracies and such that are harmful. Not exactly a Christ-like world view...