Fadal vmc15 alternatives?

[leeko]

Hi everyone,

I have a Haas mini mill as a prototyping machine in my lab at work, but I'd like to put a CNC mill in my shop at home as well, so I can spend less time away from family while I get more proficient. It would be mostly for one-offs, prototyping and learning on - nothing that looks like production.

I've been doing some research, and it looks like a fadal VMC15 would likely be my best option in terms of cost (have to keep the wife happy), reliability, ease of fixing, parts, size/weight for a home shop (5000lb-ish would be my soft limit), and availability.

In truth, a tormach 1100 would likely do everything I need but even used they are too expensive for what they are (not bashing tormach, they do fill a need but I would find it hard to justify $15k-ish for it)

What would be a reasonable price to pay for a basic VMC15 in decent condition in today's market?

Are there other alternative machines in the same ballpark I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance,

Lee

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[D Nelson]

I’m thinking 7500 for a vmc15 xt at lest 96 or newer with a calmotion box
Don


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[leeko]

Hi Don, Merry Christmas

7500 is about what I was thinking. eBay asking prices are all over the place...

Any idea the cost involved in adding a 4th axis and drive/wiring for one of these?

Thanks again

Lee

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[D Nelson]

Pretty expensive you need to find it already there for maybe 2 k more. I added it to a 4020 I wanted all new boards and a used rotary I spent about 6500. That was too much but I use it a lot for a product we make I hope this helps you out
Don


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[leeko]

Thanks Don

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[D Nelson]

No problem I like the old fadals a lot. easy to fix and run.
Don

 

[kazlx]

Even Fadals are bringing good money in today's market. A lot of places are hot to trot and picking up extra machines to make money and over paying for machines. That being said, there's still probably deals out there to be had. Fadals can be all over the place because there are so many of them and the conditions can range so much. The nice thing is, you can buy basically anything you need for them, but, you are still better off spending a bit more and buying one in as nice of condition as you can. I think you could find one under 10k pretty nice at an auction or online. If you can find one local to you, that would be ideal, since it's easy to spend a good chunk on shipping and rigging. Take into account you will also need power, tooling, vises, etc. So either work that in to your budget or find a machine that includes as much as possible.

 

[leeko]

Huh... 2 days after posting this, a Clausing Kondia FV-1 with a delta dynapath control came up for sale within driving distance, at a really good price. I jumped on it, so it's now in my shop. It will do the job for now, while I keep an eye out for a decent VMC.

Thanks everyone!

Lee

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[bastarddsm]

Huh... 2 days after posting this, a Clausing Kondia FV-1 with a delta dynapath control came up for sale within driving distance, at a really good price. I jumped on it, so it's now in my shop. It will do the job for now, while I keep an eye out for a decent VMC.

Thanks everyone!

Lee

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I think I seen that on fbmp. Seemed like a decent deal. Anyway, I thought I wanted a little fadal for some smaller jobs I have, and then I went to look at a VMC10, and jesus that still a big machine, 2/3's the floorspace of my 40x24 tree! I think I'm back on wanting a brother or other small little tap drill machine.

 

[leeko]

Yep, that's where I found it. It's was a 7 hour round trip, but I think it was worth it. Seems in nice condition, at least on cursory view. There was some tooling with it too, enough to get started with. No complaints so far...

Lee

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[Ballistic42]

What it’s worth the Fadal VMC15 XT would be a good machine but be prepared to do some work on one. I have found there is not perfect one for cheap. Do yourself a favor and take way covers off to inspect the rails. I found a cracked bearing truck on my Z axis which lead to even bigger issues.

Jeff

 

[Ballistic42]

A Fadal VMC15 XT weighs in at around 6500lbs. A used Haas you could find but good luck finding parts for an older one and any kind of support. Fadal parts are still available and has a big following. I have seen FADALS going up in price as hobby folks are stepping up to the bigger machines. The money for a new or used Tormach is crazy! I would buy FADAL all day long before I would spend money on a Chinese machine.

 

[snowshooze]

Hi everyone,

I have a Haas mini mill as a prototyping machine in my lab at work, but I'd like to put a CNC mill in my shop at home as well, so I can spend less time away from family while I get more proficient. It would be mostly for one-offs, prototyping and learning on - nothing that looks like production.

I've been doing some research, and it looks like a fadal VMC15 would likely be my best option in terms of cost (have to keep the wife happy), reliability, ease of fixing, parts, size/weight for a home shop (5000lb-ish would be my soft limit), and availability.

In truth, a tormach 1100 would likely do everything I need but even used they are too expensive for what they are (not bashing tormach, they do fill a need but I would find it hard to justify $15k-ish for it)

What would be a reasonable price to pay for a basic VMC15 in decent condition in today's market?

Are there other alternative machines in the same ballpark I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance,

Lee

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Tormach is consumer grade. I know they aren't all bad.
I wouldn't allow one in my shop.

 

[mzbg]

just my opinion here, but if you're spending the money anyway the fadal, or any other used true 30/40 taper machine, would walk circles around the Tormach. Don't waste your money.

 

[EmGo]

I would buy FADAL all day long before I would spend money on a Chinese machine.

Just in case you think harbor freight is typical, this is more common nowadays :

price is a touch under $10,000 domestically, new, probably could get delivered to US for under 15. BT 40, 20" travels, double column design, have to admit I always wanted a Hillyer.

https://files.catbox.moe/dg3wrj.mp4

And this is the kind of work they are doing on little 5 axis machines, also quite cheap, def less than a haas and more rigid, better design:

https://files.catbox.moe/qvlpxg.mp4

I can understand people not wanting to take a chance on unknown company overseas with unknown control and all that but should be aware of the competition, maybe ? I can guarantee you that if I am paying ten grand for a machine where you pay fifty, I can deliver the goodies for less cash.

It's not all about "cheap labor".

(Sorry, just went to a pretty big tool show, I am being swamped with phone videos. It's interrupting my girl watching but what can you do ? Duty calls

 

[EndlessWaltz]

^^ it's all about cheap labor. The entire reason a Chinese machine is so inexpensive is 100% the labor
(or no emissions/poison standards). Even with the markups on shipping containers last year a guy I did business with said he was seeing(at that time) 30% increase and YET he still was getting stuff there versus domestic. To put into numbers, the product would be $500 if made in USA and overseas it was clearly less than $200 easy.

With a Fadal I can still get manuals and support and parts. May not be great but better than being down a couple weeks right??

Ps- Unless I am misunderstanding your reference to cheap labor earlier in thread.

 

[EmGo]

^^ it's all about cheap labor. The entire reason a Chinese machine is so inexpensive is 100% the labor

If you said 'price' I'd agree with you. But labor, no.

Chinese labor isn't that cheap. The people who own the US want to beat us down with that crap but it isn't the factor Wall Street makes it out to be.

Sure, when they say "$4 an hour" that's like, wa. But add in the fact that housing is supplied, food is supplied, they get way more paid holidays than US labor does, they get minimum of one month salary free for spring festival, and productivity is mmmmm ... let's just say you are not going to see a chinese guy running two machines. Period. And oh yeah, once they get through probation if you fire or lay them off, they get one month for every year worked. It's not the Snidely Whiplash paradise that Uncle Miltie describes. Deduct all that stuff from a US guy's paycheck and he ain't exactly rolling in gold coins either.

What is a fact is, everything is more reasonable in China. I did a startup in Kunshan. Government helped to find a place, rent was $3,000/month, building was 100 meters by 50 meters with two cranes. How's that compare ? And did you notice that first sentence ? 'Government helped' ? Yeah, they actually have an office where you can ask about available factory buildings, or empty land suitable for building, and they will help you find what you need. And then they'll recommend reliable contractors instead of demanding $600,000 in "fees" before they'll allow you to even start putting up a commercial building in a commercial zone. (Figure literally taken from a thread here of a guy putting up a building).

Cities do screw up, sometimes you can only shake your head, but I am not aware of anything that approaches the level of US cities. I know SF a little so for example, 1.5 million dollars to install a donated toilet in a park. A dozen garbage cans commissioned so that people could choose which one they liked, $250,000 each. Yeah, trash cans and no, they didn't turn old candy wrappers into industrial diamond. Suicide barrier on the bridge, 25 million to think about it, now going to be 500 million to build it. Three block subway, only took ten years to build, had to be redone several times because they fucked up everything you could fuck up, then put out a fuckup list for bids so they find some more stuff to fuck up. China put in 10,000 miles of 200 mph trains during that same period.

You know, people pay for all that. If you are some poor bastard near SF, all that garbage goes right into your costs. I'm going to go out on a limb and say most people here will have equivalent horror stories from where they live.

No doubt labor is not blameless but I don't think we should keep using them as the whipping boy. There's other factors in US prices that are just as relevant - maybe even more relevant - than 'cheap labor'.