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Fagor 800T Based Controller - Unable to Connect through RS232 Port

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
I am trying move programs to/from a Fagor 800T based controller through the RS232 DB25 port using a new USB to RS232 cable (9->25 DB connector). A "transmission error" occurs every time the files are attempted to be accessed from the WinDNC software, as if the cable was not connected at all.

A serial port monitor has been installed on the PC and there appears to be no communication received from the controller, the WinDNC program's sent messages show up.

I am unsure how to proceed, any help? Possible non-standard pinout or damaged port on the controller, or a bad USB to RS-232 cable?
 

zSwiss

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
What COM port are you selecting on your computer? In my experience USB to serial adapters get wonky port numbers. I have also seen some that require a special driver to be recognized in the worst case.
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
Do your serial settings match the control parameters? Is the DNC active in the Peripherals mode?

Bill

The settings were selected as

- 4800 boud rate
- 8 data bits
- "None" parity
- 1 stop bit
- No flow control

On both the PC and the controller. The correct COM port and boud rate was selected in the software.

The controller's DNC mode is set OFF.
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
What COM port are you selecting on your computer? In my experience USB to serial adapters get wonky port numbers. I have also seen some that require a special driver to be recognized in the worst case.

The port number has been taken from the device manager, in fact the software does not even allow the selection of other ports. The buffer which requires UART compatibility mode or something along those lines was also disabled in device manager (tried both ways).
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
DNC needs to be ON with WinDNC.

Bil

Shoot, the manual says to turn DNC off to transfer files, so it was almost always off. I will have to retry with it on.

I found the 800T RS232 communications manual, the pinout out of the connector is shown in the image below. It does not appear to be standard.

Pinout.jpg

To make matters worse the connector is DB25 (Female) on the controller in contrast to the 9 pin above, not sure if it's the manufacturer's or Fagor's addition. Either way, the pinout is unknown, any solutions to the dilemma? For now I tried copying the picture.

By bridging the CTS/DSR/DTR ports as shown in the image a different error message appeared, this time "Transmission error" (before the error told to check cable), the COM logger also logged more messages. I have tried pinning 4->5, 5->7, 8->9 and some times swapping 2 and 3 (on the 9 DB Out/In of the USB-RS232) while jumpering the CTS/DSR/DTR, same error... The DNC was probably off though so I will have to retry.
 

Bill in PA

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Location
Fairfield, PA
Shoot, the manual says to turn DNC off to transfer files, so it was almost always off. I will have to retry with it on.

I found the 800T RS232 communications manual, the pinout out of the connector is shown in the image below. It does not appear to be standard.

View attachment 347922

To make matters worse the connector is DB25 (Female) on the controller in contrast to the 9 pin above, not sure if it's the manufacturer's or Fagor's addition. Either way, the pinout is unknown, any solutions to the dilemma? For now I tried copying the picture.

By bridging the CTS/DSR/DTR ports as shown in the image a different error message appeared, this time "Transmission error" (before the error told to check cable), the COM logger also logged more messages. I have tried pinning 4->5, 5->7, 8->9 and some times swapping 2 and 3 (on the 9 DB Out/In of the USB-RS232) while jumpering the CTS/DSR/DTR, same error... The DNC was probably off though so I will have to retry.

On my 8020 control, the DB25 connector was wired incorrectly from the factory. Had to switch one of the wires.

Bill
 

Bill in PA

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Location
Fairfield, PA
If I use WinDNC, the control needs to be set to DNC ON (to view the programs on the control). If I send programs from CAM, then the DNC is OFF.

Bill
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
On my 8020 control, the DB25 connector was wired incorrectly from the factory. Had to switch one of the wires.

Bill

Is there a manageable way to troubleshoot which pins should be bridged and which pin should go where? I also wonder about the handshake, should it be set to software or off? The flow control is not discussed in the serial communication manual at all.

Receiving transmission errors no matter what, now with DNC ON.
 

BT Fabrication

Stainless
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Is there a manageable way to troubleshoot which pins should be bridged and which pin should go where? I also wonder about the handshake, should it be set to software or off? The flow control is not discussed in the serial communication manual at all.

Receiving transmission errors no matter what, now with DNC ON.

yep the manuals that come with the machine usually have that information.
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
yep the manuals that come with the machine usually have that information.

Good news, the issue was solved!

The solution was to swap pins 2 and 3, and then bridge 4-6-8 on input side 9 pin that connects to the 9->25 adapter. Finally connect 5->5, it was not swapped to 7 as in the picture, rest remain unconnected. Set handshake/flow control to software also called Xon/Xoff. DNC ON, I also had boud rate at 9600 unlike stated in the earlier post.

Bit off-topic, but does anyone know how to convert .txt file programs to .PIL format as provided by the WinDNC, to feed the machine a program?

EDIT: Perhaps not solved yet after all, the imported programs do not look correct. EDIT2: Probably just the format they use for the "normal" programs, it's not GCode.

Thank you all for help!
 
Last edited:

Bill in PA

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Location
Fairfield, PA
Good news, the issue was solved!

The solution was to swap pins 2 and 3, and then bridge 4-6-8 on input side 9 pin that connects to the 9->25 adapter. Finally connect 5->5, it was not swapped to 7 as in the picture, rest remain unconnected. Set handshake/flow control to software also called Xon/Xoff. DNC ON, I also had boud rate at 9600 unlike stated in the earlier post.

Bit off-topic, but does anyone know how to convert .txt file programs to .PIL format as provided by the WinDNC, to feed the machine a program?

EDIT: Perhaps not solved yet after all, the imported programs do not look correct. EDIT2: Probably just the format they use for the "normal" programs, it's not GCode.

Thank you all for help!

My programs have a .pim extension. I just save text files with that extension instead of .txt. WinDNC automatically adds the escape character at the end of the program when sending to the control.

Bill
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
My programs have a .pim extension. I just save text files with that extension instead of .txt. WinDNC automatically adds the escape character at the end of the program when sending to the control.

Bill

Yes, that seems to have done the trick (except, I still have the ESC... and the LF characters - are those added as well by WinDNC? I would like to not add them). Since the original issue was successfully solved, a new thread regarding the actual use has been created including further errors: Fagor 800T: Errors on DNC
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Yes, that seems to have done the trick (except, I still have the ESC... and the LF characters - are those added as well by WinDNC? I would like to not add them). Since the original issue was successfully solved, a new thread regarding the actual use has been created including further errors: Fagor 800T: Errors on DNC


What is with all these add on guys in hex 00 to 20?
What to do with a hex 15?
LF or LF plus CR??
WHY IS IT NOT STRAIGHTFORWARD across all controls and computers?
RS-232 is a mess because so many programmers wanted to do it "their way".
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
I verified, and indeed the controller has to be in DNC mode, or the same transmission error message is printed. Same error also occurs if the USB is removed and the WinDNC program is not restarted (possibly some other maneuver may be enough).

Regarding the <LF> character, they have to be included in the program. Does anyone have a post processor or a script to add/remove them, or will I have to write one?
 

Bill in PA

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Location
Fairfield, PA
I am confused about the LF. What does a program look like when you edit it in WinDNC? If I write a program with Notepad, as long as the file has the .pim extension, it will open correctly in WinDNC.

Bill
 

AndrewZ

Plastic
Joined
Apr 25, 2022
I am confused about the LF. What does a program look like when you edit it in WinDNC? If I write a program with Notepad, as long as the file has the .pim extension, it will open correctly in WinDNC.

Bill

The normal programs look like gibberish, because they are not gcode format. The gcode program 99996 looks completely normal, see why below. The <LF> sign designates an invisible character representing line feed, alone on notepad it creates a line break.

By default (at least on the system here), if you hit "Enter" on notepad, hex 0D 0A is created, where 0A is the <LF>. The sequence is usually denoted \n. The problem is that the 0D comes before 0A, 0D being the carriage return. So usually a normal line break consists of two characters. This results in an error on the machine, 0A is all that is needed or at the very least must come first.

So a script is needed to remove the carriage return character. Perhaps in your system/controller this is not necessary.

EDIT: Note that WinDNC only comes up with an error once an incorrectly formatted program is fed to the controller, in this case the error is actually correctly stated, although I also saw few errors proclaiming the user part memory has ran out.
 








 
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